Why are these being sold????

[jaws7777]

Oscars probably get the worst of it all. Are we going say they should not be sold b by lfs and order only ? If not they why ? Whats the difference is it size only ?

Imo pima are not widely available. Are they sold by some lfs yes but no where near the level thats being suggested.

Online sales are crushing lfs this is a fact so what is actually being accomplished by all of this ? Where does it end ? Maybe wc fish ? Anything larger than 12 inches ?

Ive lived in 2 states since getting back into the hobby after shark aquarium closed imo only monster aq in nyc is worth a visit. My current stated is a wastand. That doesnt stop anyone from owning great fish -> online sales. None of the bichir i keep could ever be found in an lfs that goes for any of the bichir keepers in the US. For the most part. Anything more than the commons all are ordered from online sources so at the end of the day what is this ordered only restriction going to accomplish?

 

[jaws7777]

Morally there is no different if adequate care isn’t being provided.
But for the Betta example it would be easier for most to provide that care. Even if they choose not to, which to me is worse.

There are lots of species that get huge and are not mentioned, but I don’t think it’s necessary to list every species that gets over a certain size for the sake of the discussion.
Maybe thats the point just because a fish gets 8 inches or 8 feet if proper care isn’t being given it’s wrong either way.

Well said man. And yeah the fact that people can house these small fish like betta and still dont is worse

 

[RD.]

J jaws7777

Are they sold by some lfs yes but no where near the level thats being suggested.

In my country we don't have the same selection of online vendors as one finds in the USA. Not even remotely close. Almost all specialty type fish, such as pimas, that are purchased in-country, come from a LFS. Don't forget we have many stores across the country that routinely stock Asian aros, fish that can sell for 5K or more, so not much of a leap for these same Asian outlets to order in 6-8" juvie pimas for their customers. It's a routine thing for many of these shops to bulk order fish that they know will most likely die on the hands of their customers.

Oscars probably get the worst of it all. Are we going say they should not be sold b by lfs and order only ? If not they why ? Whats the difference is it size only ?

The difference betwen an adult pima, and an adult oscar, is about 7-9ft.
Obviously size is a factor. We aren't talking about putting a bullet in the head of every moron hobbyist that can't figure out how to take care of an oscar, we are talking about a light restriction (not ban) for the general public, from buying a fish that is going to reach 5-6ft by its second year.
That's a skill set and a tank housing situation that the vast majority (in my country) do not have.

I think that's a fair and proper direction for certain countries. Not all, such as those that have tropical climates, but Canada & the UK might be a good place to start.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Oscars probably get the worst of it all. Are we going say they should not be sold b by lfs and order only ? If not they why ?

Your probably right. More Oscars probably die from poor care than pimas do.
That's like saying more Chinese people die each year than British people, there's billians more Chinese people that's why.
Again comparing an oscar to a 7foot pima is not really going to wash. If the shop does not sell a few Oscars, they can probably house them for a while. A tank full of pima at a local fish store need to sell quick or they will completely outgrow the shops availible tank space.

Banning such large fish like pima will have zero effect on the shops trade. Most of the shops trade will be from small community fish. Shops not selling these giants will have no negative affect on their trade. In fact personally I would be more likely to boycot a shop that stock such giants as I see it as a little foolish.

 

[jaws7777]

J jaws7777



The difference betwen an adult pima, and an adult oscar, is about 7-9ft.
Obviously size is a factor.


I think that's a fair and proper direction for certain countries. Not all, such as those that have tropical climates, but Canada & the UK might be a good place to start.

Yup im aware of the size difference. I would assume if someone were advocating for one fish that has the potential to be mistreated they would advocate for the more commonly abused fish. What im getting at is why is the oscars treatment accepted and not a "order only fish"

So primas are or arent widely stocked by lfs in canada ?

Idk im only concerned that common sense be practiced in the good ol' USA.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Poor treatment of Oscars is not exceptible but you can't stop all the idiots. Having said that lots of people will have a 180 gallon + tanks. Yes Oscars do end up in 55gallon tanks but housing them properly is a hell of a lot more realistic for most than a pima. I don't see why you don't see that.

 

[RD.]

I have seen & heard of pimas being sold here in my area many times over the years. Is it a constant all the time thing, no. In other areas of Canada I have no idea?

I advocate for the fair treatment of all fish, so to me a fish sold in a cup is as No Bueno, as a fish that I know has the potential to reach 10+ft. No difference to me. I would personally vote to ban selling fish in a cup, such as betta, in a heart beat.

Your line of thinking seems to be (and please correct me if I'm wrong, Frank) that if one fish is getting abused, then all fish should be allowed to be abused, because all fish are equal.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; I may be wrong about this but think Oscars can be tank raised. To me this means there will be an abundant supply of baby Oscars from the professional and amature breeders. Same thing for bettas in that a musical chairs sort of scenario is in play. Way too many young fish for the umber of suitable homes available. Picture a fish shop having to hold all bettas and Oscars until someone with a suitable tank space customer shows up.

 

[RD.]

BTW - 42F outside my back door this morning, no tropical fish ponds in sight.

 

[jaws7777]

That's like saying more Chinese people die each year than British people, there's billians more Chinese people that's why.
.

This doesnt wash. Even though more chinese may die than brits no one life is more valuable than the other. No special requirements for one people vs the other.

Again comparing an oscar to a 7foot pima is not really going to wash. If the shop does not sell a few Oscars, they can probably house them for a while. A tank full of pima at a local fish store need to sell quick or they will completely outgrow the shops availible tank space.

.

I think the comparison is valid. It just doesnt support your point of view. If someone is advocating for better treatment of one fish why not apply that same treatment to a fish that is mistreated leaps and bounds more than a prima ?