Why are these being sold????

[BIG-G]

Morally there is no different if adequate care isn’t being provided.
But for the Betta example it would be easier for most to provide that care. Even if they choose not to, which to me is worse.

There are lots of species that get huge and are not mentioned, but I don’t think it’s necessary to list every species that gets over a certain size for the sake of the discussion.
Maybe thats the point just because a fish gets 8 inches or 8 feet if proper care isn’t being given it’s wrong either way.

 

[RD.]

Yes, bettas can be found in those types of environments as well. My understanding from importers in this area is that the vast majority of Arapaima being imported for sale are indeed farm raised. Farms with large ponds, and sold as YOY when approx. 6-8". But clearly in order for one to successfully keep a pima, is at a much different level and skill set than one keeping a betta, responsibly.

Well that's your opinion. Inadequate care is inadequate care to me. When's the last time you've seen a designer betta in a rice paddy anyway? These little guys sit in sewage waiting to get adopted then either tossed in some more sewage or put in a tall tank with fast flowing water.

I get the massive size point being made, but really what makes these so special than all the other cases? Peacock bass, clown knives, fire eels, birchirs, pacu, the numerous gigantic catfish available, etc etc. I never see pimas but always see these others in large qualities especially pacu and the catfish. So wheres this moral cutoff point?

I completely agree. Nor do I support bettas in cups, or vases, or anything else that many would deem cruel. Such as forcing a group of hyper aggro large fish together in a 100 gallon tank. Yet I see (or read) this all the time too. Many times over the years here on MFK. Which is why previously I stated that I was pro education. That would include all species, not just those targeted as being giants.

As a general rule I have no issue with pima being sold, and have said the same several times now. I do not believe they should be sold in my area, for obvious reasons. This part of the world isn't tropical, and no one has 10-15K gallon indoor heated ponds. So those imported, and sold locally, die. There's pretty much zero chance of survival, so pretty hard to support the importation of them. (here) I have seen many imported and sold locally over the years, but have never seen or heard of any successfully kept long term. Most would have probably faired better being put down humanely, and ending up on a barbecue.

 

[RD.]

Morally there is no different if adequate care isn’t being provided.
But for the Betta example it would be easier for most to provide that care. Even if they choose not to, which to me is worse.

There are lots of species that get huge and are not mentioned, but I don’t think it’s necessary to list every species that gets over a certain size for the sake of the discussion.
Maybe thats the point just because a fish gets 8 inches or 8 feet if proper care isn’t being given it’s wrong either way.

Bingo!

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I can't believe we are comparing bettas to one of the largest freshwater fish in the world.
OK some bettas get a crap life, I'm dead against it.
Seriously though its like comparing keeping a gecko to an alligator.
It's pain stakingly obvious, most people could give a betta a decent life, hardly anyone can do that for a pima.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Such as forcing a group of hyper aggro large fish together in a 100 gallon tank. Yet I see (or read) this all the time too. Many times over the years here on

Especially in those golden days of the og mfker. All that talk of back in the day with the og mfk monster fish keeper with their jdm tanks makes me want to puke!
Thank god for education and a change to those sentiments.
Og mfker my arse.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

The biggest home aquarium in the UK belongs to Jack Heathcote. The tank is 12,6 x 12.8 x 7ft this is the very very biggest home aquarium in my country and arguably not big enough for an adult pima.
Who are the lfs going to sell them to round here?

 

[krichardson]

The biggest home aquarium in the UK belongs to Jack Heathcote. The tank is 12,6 x 12.8 x 7ft this is the very very biggest home aquarium in my country and arguably not big enough for an adult pima.
Who are the lfs going to sell them to round here?

Is thst the guy who's tank is in his bssement and extends up through the main floor as a pond?

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Is thst the guy who's tank is in his bssement and extends up through the main floor as a pond?

Yes that sounds like the same tank.
I could be wromg but I believe he had to shut it down as he could not afford to keep it running. He had a couple of pacu some fly river turtles and a couple of pangasius among others living in it.

 

[dan518]

Ignorance covers all fish by most people in general, many people think fish are little more then floating potatoes therefore cannot suffer inhuman treatment, while this mind set is held by the majority then very little pressure is put on hobbiest or the industry to change its ways. I don't think pimas should be banned but I don't think they or many of the other common tank busters should be so readily available, if someone has the ability to house them they will have the means to have them imported.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Ignorance covers all fish by most people in general, many people think fish are little more then floating potatoes therefore cannot suffer inhuman treatment, while this mind set is held by the majority then very little pressure is put on hobbiest or the industry to change its ways. I don't think pimas should be banned but I don't think they or many of the other common tank busters should be so readily available, if someone has the ability to house them they will have the means to have them imported.

This is pretty much what I'm saying. I think they should be ordered only. I mean how long could the average lfs house them if they don't sell anyway.