Why are these being sold????

[islandguy11]

I think reaper is just stating an inevitable truth however uncomfortable it is.

Yes as per posts above we can all agree to some degree with that (and it's certainly not the only dark truth about the hobby/keeping fish). However that doesn't justify crassly calling out fish keepers who want to help educate newer hobbyists (or for that matter offer a different opinion), and saying "All you nay sayers (sic) are 100% the problem and root of it all. Grow up and get over it." -- not to mention referring to them as "...female *****es..." Pretty lame if you ask me.

While I feel vendors/employees have some responsibility, imo the onus is on buyers to educate themselves (so much info on the internet nowadays, there's really no excuse), which is why smart peeps come to learn at MFK

And I hope everyone can see the logic that more education/knowledge in the hobby will help reduce problems overall (esp. when talking about super monster fish that get up to 7-8 feet lol, which is what this post is originally about). More education should hopefully result in more responsible fish keeping, which in turn means less reason for gov't to intervene and make new laws. The gov't generally doesn't give a FF what kind of fish we keep, so long as they're not endangered in the wild, and we don't contaminate or upset local native ecological systems with the fish or new diseases they may bring in.

 

[ReApEr666]

I think reaper is just stating an inevitable truth however uncomfortable it is.

Much appreciated man... nothin is more unbelievable than the truth sometimes lol.. Im not great at getting the point across but its nice to see theres a few people who can stop...take a look at the bigger picture...and look back to where we all started.

 

[islandguy11]

Much appreciated man... nothin is more unbelievable than the truth sometimes lol.. Im not great at getting the point across but its nice to see theres a few people who can stop...take a look at the bigger picture...and look back to where we all started.

The truth? Who's truth, yours lol? Talk about being all-knowing...If your truth involves crapping on education in the hobby then it's not for me. I personally feel it's more important to take a look at the bigger picture and look where the hobby is going in the future, not so much where it's been. Nostalgia only gets you so far in life.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

Personally I don't think banning large fish like arapaima, pangasius or red tail catfish would have hardly any effect on the hobby at all.
There are literally thousands of species of fish a local fish store can choose to stock. The bulk of them would outsell fish like arapaima tenfold.
Unfortunately there are people that just buy huge growing fish without giving a **** about its comfort or long term well being. That's just life, there's always an idiot round the corner not matter what your into.
I don't agree that most people keeping community fish are just as bad as those that buy arapaima etc. It's obvious that most people will house a group of guppies in more generous conditions than the bulk of people that buy pangasius catfish for example. It's one thing to own a revolver, it's another to own a bazooka.
If banning local fish stores from stocking fish like arapaima means less animals suffer then I'm all for it.
I do think fish like these tank busters should be available for those that can house them in giant tanks, buy ordering them only. Ordering fish in is no big deal, I do it all the time if I want a particular species. That's because I'm an enthusiast and won't mind being patient to get what I want.
People that have huge tanks and are true enthusiasts should not mind ordering in the particular species they are after.
I hate going to a fish store and seeing tank fulls of poor pangasius, frantically darting about their tiny tank that has a label on saying max size 8 inches.
So yes I do think fish like this should be available but to order only, for truely committed people.
As far as taking away people's wants and desires, Hitler had wants and desires.Should the world have let him carry on his dream? Of course not.
The same applies to people with no compassion or empathy for living creatures. The line has to be drawn somewhere. If that goes against someone's wishes, tough **** I say.

 

[ReApEr666]

Yes as per posts above we can all agree to some degree with that (and it's certainly not the only dark truth about the hobby/keeping fish). However that doesn't justify crassly calling out fish keepers who want to help educate newer hobbyists (or for that matter offer a different opinion), and saying "All you nay sayers (sic) are 100% the problem and root of it all. Grow up and get over it." -- not to mention referring to them as "...female *****es..." Pretty lame if you ask me.

While I feel vendors/employees have some responsibility, imo the onus is on buyers to educate themselves (so much info on the internet nowadays, there's really no excuse), which is why smart peeps come to learn at MFK

And I hope everyone can see the logic that more education/knowledge in the hobby will help reduce problems overall (esp. when talking about super monster fish that get up to 7-8 feet lol, which is what this post is originally about). More education should hopefully result in more responsible fish keeping, which in turn means less reason for gov't to intervene and make new laws. The gov't generally doesn't give a FF what kind of fish we keep, so long as they're not endangered in the wild, and we don't contaminate or upset local native ecological systems with the fish or new diseases they may bring in.

"female dogs" is a refrence to the good ole days of this forum. used to be a joke here... its a joke to any O.G. out there lurkin in the shadows. I joke because this place used to be fun, light hearted and enjoyable... theres more threads of nonsense than fish anymore. Somebody gotta rally and keep it goin before its too late. If we cant rally as a community the law/masses will only crack down harder on what we do here. You may think its all a farse...you may think...hey itell never happen to me... but the end of an era is on our doorstep fellas. Are we too knowledgable these days? Have we directly eliminated LFS ourselves? How do new comers get inspried if theres nothing available local or to go off of.

 

[ReApEr666]

The truth? Who's truth, yours lol? Talk about being all-knowing...If your truth involves crapping on education in the hobby then it's not for me. I personally feel it's more important to take a look at the bigger picture and look where the hobby is going in the future, not so much where it's been. Nostalgia only gets you so far in life.

my debate has nothing to do with sharing knowledge/education, i never said that was a bad thing... the point is to stop and remember before u were informed/knowledgable and how u got started. Did u maybe keep a giant fish in a 20gal when u were in middle school that may have inspired you to continue keeping fish for 40yrs as u said? Its not nostalgia... its a cycle. if u take out the beginning i fear it stops there. You can only read so much... you dont become skilled at a trade by reading/testing alone... you need hands on practice/experience.

 

[jaws7777]

Yes as per posts above we can all agree to some degree with that (and it's certainly not the only dark truth about the hobby/keeping fish). However that doesn't justify crassly calling out fish keepers who want to help educate newer hobbyists (or for that matter offer a different opinion), and saying "All you nay sayers (sic) are 100% the problem and root of it all. Grow up and get over it." -- not to mention referring to them as "...female *****es..." Pretty lame if you ask me.

While I feel vendors/employees have some responsibility, imo the onus is on buyers to educate themselves (so much info on the internet nowadays, there's really no excuse), which is why smart peeps come to learn at MFK

And I hope everyone can see the logic that more education/knowledge in the hobby will help reduce problems overall (esp. when talking about super monster fish that get up to 7-8 feet lol, which is what this post is originally about). More education should hopefully result in more responsible fish keeping, which in turn means less reason for gov't to intervene and make new laws. The gov't generally doesn't give a FF what kind of fish we keep, so long as they're not endangered in the wild, and we don't contaminate or upset local native ecological systems with the fish or new diseases they may bring in.

I get it man. Im not gonna try and defend anyones comments i just didnt take it has he was saying educating newbs was a bad thing. I think Kittiee Katt hit the nail on the head with a real life example of cause and effect.

It sucks but hes right about supply and demand. If these stores or vendors dont make a profit they fold. We dont like the practice of not educating their customers but its a truth that it almost fuels the industry.

These type of threads pop up all the time "oh cant believe what the idiot at petsmart said" or " can you believe what the tanks look like at this lfs" and i cant help but think the same thing as reaper... quit the *****ing. In this day and age nothing anyone purchases wrongly is someone elses fault. 5 min on google and a newb can at least figure out the basics. Poor planning poor results lol.

Allot of people order fish from breeders, importers ect ect. Some of these guys are well respected. BUT no one bashes them for the cleanliness of their holding tanks. Ive seen some and they were absolutely disgusting. BUT i dont fault them. They have to maximize tank space in order to keep the sales moving.

Some vendors set up display tanks just for pics. Same tank but 100's of different fish....thats because they dont want anyone to see whats really going on.....others keep their facility in tip top order....just the business i guess.

Much appreciated man... nothin is more unbelievable than the truth sometimes lol.. Im not great at getting the point across but its nice to see theres a few people who can stop...take a look at the bigger picture...and look back to where we all started.

I get what your saying. I didnt take it as you were advocating for any of these things but it just is what it is.

 

[islandguy11]

Did u maybe keep a giant fish in a 20gal when u were in middle school that may have inspired you to continue keeping fish for 40yrs as u said?

Nope, as a young boy I went to the library, did research then went home and applied the knowledge best I could. Yes I still made mistakes, but they didn't incl. having fish that were way too big or too many for me to keep.

And yes, practice/experience is super important, nobody is trying to take that away from anyone just by giving advice/opinions, but I think we can all agree that Arapaima, RTC and even Arowana are NOT the ideal fish for new/uneducated/inexperienced fish keepers to get their practice/experience from -- and that is my main point. I'm not saying ban the fish, I'm just saying knowledge is power.

 

[jaws7777]

See we say the word ban... its easy to just state something shouldnt be allowed. The problem is where does it stop ? So how does a true enthusiast that cant properly house an RTC get one if they are banned ?

We're worried about all the rtc's and pangasius catfish, but why stop there ? Surely the betta fish in the cup of water is suffering. Lets ban those too. Its hypothetical to narrow this down to just large fish.

 

[Stanzzzz7]

I think there are a lot more people capable of housing a betta properly than an arapaima.