Why are they all dying?

[Gartenprofi]

Have you tested your water?

Yes

If yes, what is your ammonia?

My test doesn't show

If yes, what is your nitrite?

0 mg/l

If yes, what is your nitrate?

10 mg/l

If I did not test my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be asked to do a test, and that water tests are critical for solving freshwater health problems.

Do you do water changes?

Yes

What percentage of water do you change?

21-30%

How frequently do you change your water?

Every week

If I do not change my water...

1. ...I recognize that I will likely be recommended to do a water change, and water changes are critical for preventing future freshwater health problems.

I have a 120-liter aquarium with one gourami, nine neon tetras, four five-color barbs, three armored catfish, and five Amano shrimp.
At first, I had ten five-banded barbs in my aquarium, which was about a year old. Over time, however, five of them died unexpectedly. As a beginner, I never knew the cause of death, and there were no external signs or injuries. It always happened very suddenly. For some time now, I’ve been observing a large, somewhat duller-colored and slower-moving one that I think is old. When I found a pale carcass floating on the water’s surface today, I was sure it must be that five-banded barbel. But when I looked closer, I saw that it was still alive, so it must have been another “healthy” fish. I also noticed that the underside of its belly looks red and bloody, but there’s no wound. You can see that in the picture. I’ve frozen the fish now because I have contacts who could examine it. I’m just desperate and don’t know why they’re all dying when the rest look so healthy. However, I also don’t know if it would be worth it if it’s likely just an injury anyway. Could it also be internal bleeding? I really don’t know what to do anymore. If anyone is knowledgeable and has an idea of what’s causing the barb fish to die, especially but not only in that case, or if anyone recognizes what was wrong with this fish, I would really appreciate the help.

By the way, my water is hardBy the way, my water is hard

 

[Kelly_Aquatics]

To me this sounds like a bacterial infections, the hard water could have made the barbs more prone. I am not well versed in the different medications available so I won’t comment. To start I would move them to another tank if possible to make it easier to treat. I would also advise you do more frequent and larger volume water changes. Raising the temperature and dosing the tank with api aquarium salt or an equivalent should help to lower stress and hopefully prevent it in the future. I hope someone more versed in this topic chimes in.

 

[skjl47]

Hello; A generic thing is to increase the water change (WC) volume and or frequency. Maybe do 30% three times a week for a couple of weeks. Not a cure for infections but often enough helpful.
Salt is generally well tolerated by most fish, but check to be sure.
Do not know enough about the setup to comment in a more helpful way. I do not know if you are new to the hobby. A thing new hobbyist do is to over feed. I did so. Try adjusting the feed to what the fish can eat in five minutes (no more than ten). Feed only once a day. Skip at least one day a week of feeding all together. Two days per week of no feeding right now. (The idea is uneaten food decays in the water and releases decay byproducts)

If you have a gravel/sand substrate the use of a siphon with a big tube on one end which necks down to a small tube works well. Get a siphon going & stick the big end deep into the gravel. Siphon into a bucket during a WC is how i do it.

If you have fine sand substrate more than inch deep, post such on here.

Get some snails. I like ramshorns and the notorious MTS. In my view better for organic debris to pass thru the gut of a snail than to rot.

If you have the capacity have a smaller second or third tank to use as a hospital tank. Transfer sick looking fish to that.

At some point you ought to have a QT setup for new fish. Quarantine Tanks are a pain and not much fun but if you persist in the hobby will save fish & money. Some say three to four weeks of QT. Other well-respected members suggest six months or more. A compromise might be a month for tank raised fish & six months for wild caught.

Have a way to sanitize the equipment Have separate things such as nets for a QT, hospital tank kept separate for the main tank.

Good luck.

 

[Gartenprofi]

Thank you very much! Unfortunately, I only have one tank and would really rather not buy another one. But does the risk of infection still apply if there are long intervals between deaths? The last fish died two months ago. What is API Salt, and what are its pros and cons?

 

[Gartenprofi]

Hello; A generic thing is to increase the water change (WC) volume and or frequency. Maybe do 30% three times a week for a couple of weeks. Not a cure for infections but often enough helpful.
Salt is generally well tolerated by most fish, but check to be sure.
Do not know enough about the setup to comment in a more helpful way. I do not know if you are new to the hobby. A thing new hobbyist do is to over feed. I did so. Try adjusting the feed to what the fish can eat in five minutes (no more than ten). Feed only once a day. Skip at least one day a week of feeding all together. Two days per week of no feeding right now. (The idea is uneaten food decays in the water and releases decay byproducts)

If you have a gravel/sand substrate the use of a siphon with a big tube on one end which necks down to a small tube works well. Get a siphon going & stick the big end deep into the gravel. Siphon into a bucket during a WC is how i do it.

If you have fine sand substrate more than inch deep, post such on here.

Get some snails. I like ramshorns and the notorious MTS. In my view better for organic debris to pass thru the gut of a snail than to rot.

If you have the capacity have a smaller second or third tank to use as a hospital tank. Transfer sick looking fish to that.

At some point you ought to have a QT setup for new fish. Quarantine Tanks are a pain and not much fun but if you persist in the hobby will save fish & money. Some say three to four weeks of QT. Other well-respected members suggest six months or more. A compromise might be a month for tank raised fish & six months for wild caught.

Have a way to sanitize the equipment Have separate things such as nets for a QT, hospital tank kept separate for the main tank.

Good luck.

Okay. Thanks to you, too. I always vacuum the gravel as well. Do snails cause a lot of problems? Here’s how much I feed them: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/am-i-feeding-correctly.767692/. So far, the fish haven’t shown any signs of trouble. It’s just that now there was this belly that might have been bloody. Every time I think everything is fine, another one dies three months later.Okay. Thanks to you, too. I always vacuum the gravel as well. Do snails cause a lot of problems? Here’s how much I feed them: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/am-i-feeding-correctly.767692/. So far, the fish haven’t shown any signs of trouble. It’s just that now there was this belly that might have been bloody. Every time I think everything is fine, another one dies three months later.

 

[skjl47]

Thank you very much! Unfortunately, I only have one tank and would really rather not buy another one. But does the risk of infection still apply if there are long intervals between deaths? The last fish died two months ago. What is API Salt, and what are its pros and cons?

Hello; Been there with only one tank. Long intervals between deaths and the relation to infection is a topic varied to the point that I can only say maybe. My first thought would be to consider water conditions as a culprit.
This is where I would do a general sanitizing of nets and other equipment used around & in the tank. Some bacteria can become dormant and lie in wait for better conditions.

Back a few decades I was told to use ordinary table salt and to avoid the salt with iodine. To use non-iodized salt. Someone else will have to tell if API salt has advantages. Safe to use is my take.

 

[skjl47]

Okay. Thanks to you, too. I always vacuum the gravel as well. Do snails cause a lot of problems? Here’s how much I feed them: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/am-i-feeding-correctly.767692/. So far, the fish haven’t shown any signs of trouble. It’s just that now there was this belly that might have been bloody. Every time I think everything is fine, another one dies three months later.Okay. Thanks to you, too. I always vacuum the gravel as well. Do snails cause a lot of problems? Here’s how much I feed them: https://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/threads/am-i-feeding-correctly.767692/. So far, the fish haven’t shown any signs of trouble. It’s just that now there was this belly that might have been bloody. Every time I think everything is fine, another one dies three months later.

Hello; Some folks despise snails. Snails generally only cause problems if you overfeed on a regular basis. Rams horns are a better choice than the MTS in general in terms of fewer problems.
The MTS have very hard shells and do when numerous get into pumps and cause problems. The MTS do have a skill. They can and do burrow deep into the gravel to get at food bits.

 

[Kelly_Aquatics]

This is the salt I am referring to, I’m sure there are alternatives this is just what I have had luck with. The main benefit would be lowering stress to help fish recover easier.

As far as cons, I have heard that it can be potentially harmful to scaleless fish like eels and certain loaches.

 

[duanes]

Both the Asian Barbs, and Neon tetras prefer low pH (7 or lower), and neutral to soft water.
These fish have little to no immunity to bacteria found in hard water, so are prone to bacterial infections the harder, and more mineral rich, your water is.

Depending on how hard it is, you may want to choose fish that thrive in hard water.
Did you have it tested?

Amazonian, and S East Asian species are not normally fit for hardwater tanks


Similar to Neons though, white cloud mountain minnows from China are more adaptable.

And new world species Mountain mullet are a better fit, for hard water.

Mountain Mullet above.
Central American and rift lake species might also be more adapted to your water.
From Central America, Astyanax tetras are from hard, high pH .
I catch them here in Panama in pH 8.2, 250´Total hardness streams.

Another similat tetra, the Buenos Aires tetra from Argentina and Uruguay, comes from harder conditions
Astyanax below


We are all at the mercy of our tap water parameters, and getting species that are adaptable is very important, unless you want to strip minerals out with an RO, unit and add acids to mimic natural conditions.

Some people may say pH, and hardness aren´t important, but being a former chemist/microbiologist, that doesn't make logical sense to me.
And most serious fish breeders cater to their fishes natural conditions.

My tap water pH is 8.2 and very hard, so even though one of my favorite fish is the Rio Negro/ Amazonian species Uaru fernandezyepizi, getting it would be an exercise in futility, at over $60 each, and they would die early from bacteria they aren´t adapted to resist..

 

[Gartenprofi]

Both the Asian Barbs, and Neon tetras prefer low pH (7 or lower), and neutral to soft water.
These fish have little to no immunity to bacteria found in hard water, so are prone to bacterial infections the harder, and more mineral rich, your water is.

Depending on how hard it is, you may want to choose fish that thrive in hard water.
Did you have it tested?

Amazonian, and S East Asian species are not normally fit for hardwater tanks


Similar to Neons though, white cloud mountain minnows from China are more adaptable.

And new world species Mountain mullet are a better fit, for hard water.
View attachment 1574583View attachment 1574584
Mountain Mullet above.
Central American and rift lake species might also be more adapted to your water.
From Central America, Astyanax tetras are from hard, high pH .
I catch them here in Panama in pH 8.2, 250´Total hardness streams.

Another similat tetra, the Bueso Aires tetra from Argentina and Uruguay, comes from harder conditions
Astyanax below
View attachment 1574581

We are all at the mercy of our tap water parameters, and getting species that are adaptable is very important, unless you want to strip minerals out with an RO, unit and add acids to mimic natural conditions.

Some people may say pH, and hardness aren´t important, but being a former chemist/microbiologist, that doesn't make logical sense to me.
And most serious fish breeders cater to their fishes natural conditions.

My tap water pH is 8.2 and very hard, so even though one of my favorite fish is the Rio Negro/ Amazonian species Uaru fernandezyepizi, getting it would be an exercise in futility, at over $60 each, and they would die early from bacteria they aren´t adapted to resist..

So you think it’s definitely a bacterial infection? Can this keep happening over such a long period of time, with breaks in between, and what could the bloody stool be? If I buy more fish, I’ll definitely take your advice. Thanks a lot