Why does everyone overdo the bio?

[Bderick67]

　
You are misleading people when you argue against myself and others encouraging people to understand the truth… meaning what their literally need…

I have not once read or wrote that people should not use Bio Media… Only that they should know what is necessary, and make intelligent decisions from there. I’m not even arrogant enough to suggest what “intelligent decisions” they should make. I simply try to educate people on details and let them make their own decisions…

As you are misleading people by suggesting that 175g of fish tank can be effectively filtered by a single AC110 with just a sponge. In your basement maybe true, for the majority of the rest of the fish keeping world THIS WILL NOT WORK. My arguing is basis for all that you are excluding in your minimalist approach.
　


　

　I agree… and I put the Bio Max in my AC filters… since it came with them it’s silly not to. But when the bag wears out/breaks down I usually throw out the Bio Max, as I understand it’s not a necessity…

Hmmm..seems that you have posted different in your "bio media thread" I myself have biomax that is over 4 years old and have yet to see it wear out or break down. An occasional cleaning by soaking in bleach is a good idea to keep clean, but this would need to be discussed as a whole other topic.
　

　As I have explained earlier in this thread… and as you have suggested you already know…
　
When you remove a portion of bacteria… it takes time (not media) for the remaining colony to expand to make up for the loss…
　
PS - No amount of additional media will remove the necessary time for this to happen… which is a misconception you previously promoted…

　
No, do not twist my words into your own misconception.

If you have one filter on the tank and remove it then TANK FAIL

If you have redundant filtration and a filter fails the tank lives on.
　

　I do agree bacteria is likely to concentrate in the higher flow places… such as in the filter, as well as in the tank near the intake and return…
　
But also realize that lower concentrations of bacteria spread throughout the tank has it’s advantages. Just because you push 5 or 10 times your tanks volume through your filter(s) per hour, doesn’t mean that every drop of water goes through a filter 5 to 10 times per hour. Much of the water interacts with surfaces within the tank before it goes back into the filter (or else there wouldn't be bacteria in the tank )

The advantages a very little if even existent since they are not a large enough population to really support anything if the main colonies are removed.
　

　I do not argue against large quantities of bacteria accumulating in the filter… I argue that bacteria can and will form in your system in the necessary quantities regardless. If you want to make special places for it to do so, you are welcome to… but it isn’t necessary…

I do not suggest it is a bad idea to use Bio Media... I only educate people that it is not necessary... and let them choose to or not to use it...

　
Problem is many who read you "so called teachings" are inexperienced and cannot grasp your concept. It would be like teaching algebra to 1st graders, they just aren't gonna get it.
　

　

　LOL… You’re a ton of fun Derrick… In one post you challenge me to keep a fish alive in a bare 10 gal now you are criticizing him for accepting your challenge…
　
Adding ammonia, as opposed to fish… is a much more controlled, therefore scientific, approach at proving the same thing… it’s also more “humane” since we are not forcing a living creature to be part of an experiment…
　
Go do some research and see how big a fish would have to be to produce 5 ppm of ammonia per day… My experiment has already proved what you want us to prove… you’ve just yet to accept it…

　

I did not criticize, only suggested approaches that would show results that are actually useful. I suppose with some research one could find out how much ammonia a fish produces, I realize that with just one piece of a puzzle you are willing to draw conclusions. I myself would like to add other puzzle pieces such as, amount feed, uneaten food, mech filtration, water changes. With the answers here a baseline could possibly be achieved as to find a ratio of fish to surface area, but then again most will still just add more bio media to be sure
　

　

　If this were true as simply as you present it… then you could take all of the fish and the filter(s) from a mature tank… and place it in/on a brand new tank… and you wouldn’t experience anything more than a very small mini cycle…
　
Which I have done personally and had just as much of a “mini cycle” as I would have expected to have if I replaced the old filters media with all new media…

　
It is that simple, done many time and never experienced a registered level of ammonia when tested.
　

　While I agree/understand that a large portion of bacteria lives in the filter… it is not true to think that this is the only place it can/will/does live/thrive.

Again there is not enough living with in the tank to matter as the case of most of the fishkeeping world. though in your basement it may hold true.

 

[Bderick67]

Adding more surface area to an established bio culture will only allow the bacteria to "Spread Out".

This is not necessarily shown with just water parameters. With the media being "spread out" It is less likely that all the colony could be damaged or lost. This leads to having greater stability.

This is a scientific debate, not sports day at elementary school. Not everyone gets a blue ribbon.

Bderick - I'm not sure exactly what it is you're advocating here. The conversation isn't supposed to be telling people what to do and what not to do, it's been clearly stated many times that if you want to build a huge bio filter, then go ahead, but let's all understand just how (generally) needless it is, so those who don't know better won't copy you (and waste time and money in the process) out of ignorance.

Maybe just playing the devil's advocate Do you even know what type filtration I'm running? So how do you know that it wouldn't be wise to copy what Ive done, so now who's showing their ignorance?

BTW auto insurance isn't generally needed either. Not that just adding bio media adds insurance, but well thought out and placed bio media definitely does.

 

[OnceLoyal]

Are you really that ignorant that you can't really get my name correct? But if ya want to butcher names so be it, BC Butface.


LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Toby_H]

LOL, I still say you’re a ton of fun. Sorry if I got your name wrong “BDerick67”… I made an assumption, not an attack (unlike you ;-) ) So put your “ignorant” accusation in check bud
　

As you are misleading people by suggesting that 175g of fish tank can be effectively filtered by a single AC110 with just a sponge. In your basement maybe true, for the majority of the rest of the fish keeping world THIS WILL NOT WORK. My arguing is basis for all that you are excluding in your minimalist approach.

　
FYI - The laws of physics and biology are the same at my house as they are at yours :-D
　
I have often supplied details of my experience as to why I say what I say… please share some factual evidence or personal experience to support that I’m wrong… or that physics/biology works different at my house than at others…
　
　
…Charlotte water is fairly Acidic which may be why my bags have broken down… And I clearly explained how/why not all of my AC 110s have Bio Max in it… and feel free to provide an unadulterated quote where I said I do not use the Bio Max Media that comes with the AC 110s…
　
　
After that point your post just became silly… you are basing a lot of your argument on the misconception that bacteria does not thrive on surfaces within the aquarium. Which is not supported by common sense, logic, nor science. It is only supported by the agendas of the filter/media manufacturers.
　
Lastly, I agree that if someone half reads what I post and doesn’t understand it… yet tries to follow it… they will not meet success…
　
I admit I speak as if I am talking to intelligent people… and no I won’t dumb it down so other’s can follow along.

 

[Bderick67]

LOL, I still say you’re a ton of fun. Sorry if I got your name wrong “BDerick67”… I made an assumption, not an attack (unlike you ;-) ) So put your “ignorant” accusation in check bud
　

　
FYI - The laws of physics and biology are the same at my house as they are at yours :-D
　
I have often supplied details of my experience as to why I say what I say… please share some factual evidence or personal experience to support that I’m wrong… or that physics/biology works different at my house than at others…
　
　
…Charlotte water is fairly Acidic which may be why my bags have broken down… And I clearly explained how/why not all of my AC 110s have Bio Max in it… and feel free to provide an unadulterated quote where I said I do not use the Bio Max Media that comes with the AC 110s…
　
　
After that point your post just became silly… you are basing a lot of your argument on the misconception that bacteria does not thrive on surfaces within the aquarium. Which is not supported by common sense, logic, nor science. It is only supported by the agendas of the filter/media manufacturers.
　
Lastly, I agree that if someone half reads what I post and doesn’t understand it… yet tries to follow it… they will not meet success…
　
I admit I speak as if I am talking to intelligent people… and no I won’t dumb it down so other’s can follow along.

Well you know what happens when you assume. Ofcourse this time you only made one of yourself.

I do not misconcerve that bacteria doesn't grow everwhere, but for useful purpose, not that's your miss not mine.

By the way BC my name is in my signature that's what it's for.

 

[cvermeulen]

I do not misconcerve that bacteria doesn't grow everwhere, but for useful purpose, not that's your miss not mine.

By the way BC my name is in my signature that's what it's for.

BC Butface? Come on man, don't pollute this thread with first grade BS. Go have a nap and come back with some well articulated, logical, reasonable statements. This isn't an argument, it's a discussion. Do you think whatever word you were trying to use is mad at you because you misspelled it "misconcerve"?

 

[cvermeulen]

As you are misleading people by suggesting that 175g of fish tank can be effectively filtered by a single AC110 with just a sponge. In your basement maybe true, for the majority of the rest of the fish keeping world THIS WILL NOT WORK. My arguing is basis for all that you are excluding in your minimalist approach.

This is the root of the point here, and I think what everyone needs to see from you is some evidence of this. You have not provided even anecdotal evidence to support this. Several others have presented evidence and reasonable theory saying that it WILL work. This isn't Sunday school - you can't just say something and expect everyone to believe it without any evidence.

 

[Bderick67]

BC Butface? Come on man, don't pollute this thread with first grade BS. Go have a nap and come back with some well articulated, logical, reasonable statements. This isn't an argument, it's a discussion. Do you think whatever word you were trying to use is mad at you because you misspelled it "misconcerve"?

Is it mispelled or a typo does it matter? Anyhow I'm sure BC clear on the subject now

 

[Lupin]

Another thread that is on the edge of abyss. Folks, stop derailing the thread and please debate without going personal. Thanks.

 

[Bderick67]

This is the root of the point here, and I think what everyone needs to see from you is some evidence of this. You have not provided even anecdotal evidence to support this. Several others have presented evidence and reasonable theory saying that it WILL work. This isn't Sunday school - you can't just say something and expect everyone to believe it without any evidence.

There are hundreds of threads that support this. Heck even BC's 125g supports this with the two AC110s, I guess the confidence of the single AC just isn't there. You realistically believe that just an AC110 is all you need to effectively filter and 175g worth of tank here on MFK

BTW It is Sunday