Why I don't frequent local (or chain) fish stores

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^^ true, but I've yet to see a lot of any fish I truly want first hand in a lfs. I'd love to walk into a store and see wc Vieja or ornatum or a Festae, but I don't.

I'm also in the minority when it comes to those species, so it does come with the turf.




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And therein lies the problem. Theres no profit in stocking all manner of weird and wonderful if nobody is buying. Even with special orders. Is it really worth the time and effort to hunt down a fish for 50 $ profit? Unless they know its gonna be repeat business. The majority of people have smaller than tanks with community fish so that's where the profit lies.

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You're right John, crooks are like cockroaches. I guess I was only offering up what many hobbyists fail to see from their side of the monitor. In your industry I can't even begin to imagine how bad it has become over the past decade.

That's the most important point though. The "how bad it's gotten" mentality happened about 10 years ago. Now things are different because, we've realized the very thing (computer/Internet) that caused the crisis, was our solution. We just failed to see it sooner.






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And therein lies the problem. Theres no profit in stocking all manner of weird and wonderful if nobody is buying. Even with special orders. Is it really worth the time and effort to hunt down a fish for 50 $ profit? Unless they know its gonna be repeat business. The majority of people have smaller than tanks with community fish so that's where the profit lies.

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Yes. A lfs sells 100x as many neon tetras as they do Festae. But offering it for sale and actually stocking it are 2 different things. Plenty of sites/stores offer special order fish.


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The aquarium hobby is a much smaller world, with the same pitfalls and a dwindling influx of new blood. Without LFS there will be no knew hobbyists, there will always be people seeking music.

Not in North America. The aquarium hobby is massive, which is why chain stores such as Petco and PetSmart have become industry giants over the past 20 yrs. Petco now has over 1,000 stores, in 50 states, and the type of hobbyist that they cater to (entry level - intermediate) is what dominates this industry - not "monster" fishkeepers. While LFS continue to close down, the industry giants just keep getting bigger. The very fact that the niche market dealers have also expanded, and grown, shows just how little effect the death of a LFS makes in this business. I hate to see them go to, and support them as much as I can, but where I live they are dead & long gone, with only chain stores remaining. So I either travel a 3-4 hr round trip, or I buy online.

John - while I agree with what you are saying, I have seen LFS survive, and continue to thrive, without requiring any type of online presence. In fact, one of the most successful fish stores in my area (a couple hrs away) removed their website several yrs ago as they found it to cost them more time and hassle than what it was worth. They have been in the same location for 15 yrs or more, and have been successful due to always adapting to the market (as in what's hot) and having some of the most unique fish, and lowest prices in the market area. They also offer to beat any local price by 5%. If you are a good customer they will also go the extra mile to source out whatever one is looking for. They have medium dollar fish, and uber expensive fish - and their store is crammed from floor to ceiling with tanks. They don't sell dog/cat/rabbit/bird supplies, they don't waste tank space on neon tetras, they don't even sell aquarium plants, and their dry goods are limited. But they probably move more fish out of that store on a weekly basis than any other store in their city. On the weekend one can barely turnaround. They managed to carve out their little niche in the market & it works. And no computer. :)
 
We had a couple of LFS like that. They went out of business. One after about 6 years. The other after about 25 years. And this is in the DC area, which has been hit much less hard than most of the country by the recession.

The numbers just don't add up for a brick and mortal LFS.

Matt

^^ true, but I've yet to see a lot of any fish I truly want first hand in a lfs. I'd love to walk into a store and see wc Vieja or ornatum or a Festae, but I don't.

I'm also in the minority when it comes to those species, so it does come with the turf.




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^^ those are stories I love to hear. I wish it would happen more often. Sounds like they have adapted better business practices in order to compete and listen to gets their customers want.

I wish I had a store like that around....


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I don't think id ever buy live fish online. I was raised into a LFS and for years have worked as a sales rep within the aquatic industry selling dry goods to LFS's so i know a bit about this topic. I feel its a shame every time a local store shuts down.. Thats if they're reputable of course. I service a couple hundred stores and know that the large majority of these store would be willing to sell product to an end customer for the same landed price he could buy it online. Try it! They may not like the fact that they cant double up profits but they're already getting used to this as this market is becoming extremely competitive on the wholesale and retail end. They typically prefer make some profit than none. Undercutting is normal but imo has gotten way out of control. We need to support LFS's or we wont have much of a hobby in the near future. I feel that you'll get a much better service from a reputable LFS than any online store. At least most of the time. If you all knew how many online stores try to open up accounts with the company i work for... I refuse them for the simple reason that if they exist they'll work toward putting my retail stores out of business. Actual retail store support your economy much much more than a piddly online shop who really just buys from a distribution company like the retail stores do but they don't have the over head of employees, rent/mortgage, electricity etc etc. yes i agree LFS's should have more competent staff. If the store doesn't have this attribute then don't shop there and find a store that does.
 
Most LFS owners put in a tremendous amount of hrs already, the cost of a website isn't the problem. And this issue isn't just about having an online presence, or not. It's far more complex than that. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say things like "adapt or die" (which this truly is a case of) while every man and his dog has become a wholesaler of dry goods, and an importer of live fish from foreign countries. Many of these vendors are in business for less than a couple of years, just long enough to further erode what little market existed prior to their arrival into the "fish business".

Let me give you an example. In my area there are a couple of guys who import fish from South America several times a year. Large orders, lots of very hard to find species, plecos in the $250-500+ range. Not just neon tetras etc. They sponsor online forums, and they give great deals to hobbyists. They do all of this out of their homes, cash is paid for everything, and not a single penny is claimed as revenue at the end of the year.

How does a LFS compete with that?

There are teenage kids in high school now importing fish, expensive fish, Asian aros, rare stingrays, exotic and uber expensive species of all shapes & sizes. Then they blow out just enough (at low ball prices) to cover their costs on one or two fish, and the shipping, and maybe pocket a few bucks.

And again, how does a LFS compete with those kinds of prices?


When I dealt in dry goods (fish food) there were distributors that were hurting enough that they would sell to anyone who had $$$ in hand, not just legit vendors with legit businesses. Some of these idjits (online vendors) would not only sell at lowball prices, making just enough to pay for a couple of buckets of food for their own tanks - but would do so in the parking lot of the LFS. Their prices to hobbyists, was my wholesale price to a retail store!

How does the LFS compete with that?


These types of vendors come and go on an regular basis, one moron leaves and another fills his shoes. They don't know jack about business, have probably never heard of, let alone written up any kind of long term business plan, because for them this isn't a long term venture. Most of these types also do not pay taxes, so for that reason alone it's always going to be difficult for an honest legit business owner to compete with bottom feeders like that.


I'm all for healthy competition and pricing, and getting good deals on everything that I can, but at some point every business owner has to look at their bottom line & decide whether it's worth the effort and costs, or not. Unfortunately there is a huge black market portion of online sales, where cash is paid & receipts don't exist, and IMO this is what's truly hurting the fish economy, not legit tax paying online vendors who are in this long term, and who also want to see the overall market improve.


It's hard to compete with crooks ......

+1 i agree with every point you made
 
The same can be said about reptiles, etc but the concept still remains.. their a business not PETA. If a customer comes in and says he has a 2500 g aquarium, who is he to call him a liar? People lie all the time, IE yeah the mastiff is going to a big house with a beautiful yard yet it's really a trailer. No way can a successful business question and 100 percent surely make sure someone has what they say or need. It's not the petstore it's the law that makes them legal to own in the first place. Heck if dolphins were legal they would be at Petsmart.

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What exactly is that supposed to mean?

Clearly there's a demand for all of these various goods, and the problem isn't in LFS ability to supply them. The problem is a bit more complicated than simply a supply/demand equation.

That's why I said "biz is biz" 1st; meaning a profitable industry like the pet trade has to make money in order to remain and stay in the black.

And the op was talking about a ton of rtc at one lfs and how many fk not having adequate setups hence my comment of supply and demand. People want the ulmighty rtc so some lfs will carry more of them to have them in stock!

Around my area Oscars, ebjd, aros etc are popular hence more local lfs carrying an abundance. Sorry if my 1st post was a bit unclear.




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