This fish went from a 20, to a 75, to 150, and now in a 300. If i have my way over the next yr or so he'll be getting even larger digs.
You shouldnt assume everyone is a reckless fish keeper lacking basic knowledge.
Why we test (after a cycle is done)
- Thread starter duanes
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This fish went from a 20, to a 75, to 150, and now in a 300. If i have my way over the next yr or so he'll be getting even larger digs.
You shouldnt assume everyone is a reckless fish keeper lacking basic knowledge.
I wasn't confused by what you were saying, only where you were going with your position.
Nice to see large platys. There's as hard to find as large guppies.
Not it will not. Relatively small amount of media can grow very large BB populations in the presence of sufficient oxygen. It is more than likely the tank already has enough surface area to grow BB. But yes, in a scenario where one's media has gone anaerobic and killed of the existing BB, adding a healthy BB colony will help. The same will happen to the new media if the oxygen issue is not addressed.
No, what I am saying is that if you keep a fish in an adequate size tank that can't support its current bioload, will lead to long term issues. When one is risking keeping a fast growing fish in small quarters, one never knows but one may get lucky....or not. I don't do luck with fish.
Yes, agree. However, more often than not in these scenarios it becomes an issue.
I know you aren't but although you've got that fish out to bigger tanks on time, many will not manage so successfully. Many simply do not have the financial ability to react on time or ever take that fish out of that too small of a tank... It is way safer raising and keeping fish in sufficient size tanks that can accommodate them for life. Most fish grow all their life span so unless one keeps the fish in a suitable tank size to support its full growth, there's always risk involved.
I kept some of their siblings in a 20G. They never grew to that size, same genetics, same food, same water change schedule, same water...
Maybe maybe not. No one can assume what anyone has the means to do. One member who again is no longer openly active. Kept similar fish as mine in a 180 gal tank. These fish are currently in the double digits (age) and going strong. Not always one size fits all
Edit: i do agree with you water quality is a must in smaller grow out tanks. Testing is the best way to keep thing spiffy
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"Ammonia is in a tank 24/7". What levels of ammonia are we talking here because my API test kit shows a big fat bright yellow 0ppm on my tanks. Is it such a tiny amount that the API kit can't pick it up?
Experiments have shown that exposure to un-ionized ammonia concentrations as low as 0.002 mg/L for six weeks causes hyperplasia of gill lining in salmon fingerlings and may lead to bacterial gill disease.
Lower concentrations of ammonia can cause a reduction in hatching success, reduction in growth rate and morphological development, and pathologic changes in tissues of gills, livers, and kidneys
Ammonia can act on a fish’s central nervous system and cause effects such as hyperventilation, hyperexcitability, and loss of equilibrium.
In rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), sublethal concentrations of ammonia can cause hyperexcitability, resulting in fish crashing into the sides of the tank in response to any disturbance
Lower concentrations of ammonia can cause a reduction in hatching success, reduction in growth rate and morphological development, and pathologic changes in tissues of gills, livers, and kidneys
Ammonia can act on a fish’s central nervous system and cause effects such as hyperventilation, hyperexcitability, and loss of equilibrium.
In rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss), sublethal concentrations of ammonia can cause hyperexcitability, resulting in fish crashing into the sides of the tank in response to any disturbance
0.002ppm??? How depressing. We all pride ourselves on keeping our water tip top and even if we think we're doing a remarkable job at it we're still slowly killing our fish with levels that our test kits can't even pick up on!
I think it's safe to say that basically everyone of us is keeping our fish in a toilet. The only difference between all our toilets is that some people's toilets are bigger than others and a few people's toilets are slightly cleaner than others.
Debate aside.....
The point of the thread was to show how test numbers relate to real life.
I believe beyond that long awaited disappearance of ammonia and nitrite numbers it takes to withstand the excruciating duration of time it takes to cycle comes for many a new aquarist, after that, the first set of values are just numbers, 5ppm nitrate, 8.2 pH, etc etc, but they aren't just numbers, they are important because they show the health or non-health of the system.
I see many posts saying "I need to bring my pH down to 7, because my tank pH is 8.2".
Why????? because some generic fish site said 8.2 is bad......but actually No, 8.2 is not bad at all
depending on what fish you have.
Or......"my pH is 5, how do I bring it up?" although 5 may be bad if your tap water is pH 8, and your tank is filled with urine soup.
But if tap water is 5.5 and your tank is 5.0, that 5.0 pH is not bad.
It just means the aquarist needs to choose fish species carefully accordingly to the tap water
for the above, cardinals yes, Mbuna, probably not.
And although its easier and quicker to turn a 20 gallon tank to fish urine soup than a 200 gallon.
Its all relative, 10 neons might overwhelm a 20 gal, if not managed properly.
5 P-bass or 6 oscars, or 1 ill advised purchase of a pacu, could just as easily overwhelm that 200 gallon tank, without the proper water change regime.
In truth (to me) nothing under 200 gallons is in realty a large tank.
It may be too large for the room, or apartment, but
If you compare what fish live in, in nature in 200 or even 400 gallons, there are very few.
You can find mollies in drainage ditches, Betta in rice paddies, killifish in tiny streams, maybe some cichlid fry.
But nothing of any size, unless its a fish trapped and dying in a pond drying up during the dry season.
Even in some of the small Cenotes of Mexico, in some around 5000 gallons I've seen Astyanax tetras, and live bearers, but cichlids only show up when the Cenote is almost double that size.
This is why it is important to monitor your tank, especially when keeping fish that wouldn't be caught dead in small volumes of water, if you want them healthy.
The point of the thread was to show how test numbers relate to real life.
I believe beyond that long awaited disappearance of ammonia and nitrite numbers it takes to withstand the excruciating duration of time it takes to cycle comes for many a new aquarist, after that, the first set of values are just numbers, 5ppm nitrate, 8.2 pH, etc etc, but they aren't just numbers, they are important because they show the health or non-health of the system.
I see many posts saying "I need to bring my pH down to 7, because my tank pH is 8.2".
Why????? because some generic fish site said 8.2 is bad......but actually No, 8.2 is not bad at all
depending on what fish you have.
Or......"my pH is 5, how do I bring it up?" although 5 may be bad if your tap water is pH 8, and your tank is filled with urine soup.
But if tap water is 5.5 and your tank is 5.0, that 5.0 pH is not bad.
It just means the aquarist needs to choose fish species carefully accordingly to the tap water
for the above, cardinals yes, Mbuna, probably not.
And although its easier and quicker to turn a 20 gallon tank to fish urine soup than a 200 gallon.
Its all relative, 10 neons might overwhelm a 20 gal, if not managed properly.
5 P-bass or 6 oscars, or 1 ill advised purchase of a pacu, could just as easily overwhelm that 200 gallon tank, without the proper water change regime.
In truth (to me) nothing under 200 gallons is in realty a large tank.
It may be too large for the room, or apartment, but
If you compare what fish live in, in nature in 200 or even 400 gallons, there are very few.
You can find mollies in drainage ditches, Betta in rice paddies, killifish in tiny streams, maybe some cichlid fry.
But nothing of any size, unless its a fish trapped and dying in a pond drying up during the dry season.
Even in some of the small Cenotes of Mexico, in some around 5000 gallons I've seen Astyanax tetras, and live bearers, but cichlids only show up when the Cenote is almost double that size.
This is why it is important to monitor your tank, especially when keeping fish that wouldn't be caught dead in small volumes of water, if you want them healthy.
It is species dependent. Salmon fingerlings would be known as one the most sensitive cases but literature points to many other fish we actually keep being as sensitive, especially fry of any species.
A measure of success should be the health and life span of the fish, not the colour of the test tube. By saying ammonia is 24/7 in a tank, what I mean is that ammonia is not a constant, it goes up and down and in a suitably stocked tank the BB will oxidize it efficiently, before the levels go up too high to affect fish. A bigger size tank will also dilute any potential rise. Spikes in ammonia may not always be evident but chronic exposure to such conditions will affect the fish enough for the fish keeper to take notice....as the fish gets sickly, stunted or die...By spikes I mean fluctuations which would be less than 0.25 ppm but high often enough to have long term effect on the fish. Anything measurable on the test tubes becomes acute toxicity, depending on pH and temperature.
Testing is just a help tool. It is not a guarantee that the water quality is good enough for the species and size of fish being raised but it is all we've got in the mean time, while we learn.
I tend to look at and evaluate my experience retrospectively, looking back at what I did and what it led to.
