Wild caught silvers are no slouches

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DeLgAdO;498273; said:
what are you trying to saying?

you make it sound like i was trying to hide it.
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I didnt say that. I was merely telling you facts. This is all about facts right?
 
DavidW;498281; said:
In my recent incarnation as an importer and seller of rays I also dealt with a lot of S.American arrows, blacks and silvers. ( I mean a LOT)
My friends/suppliers sell literally millions of young silvers to Asia each season, where they are often grown out to be resold.
Simple economics govern this fish.
, at least as far as the US market is concerned.
silver babies with yolk sacs travel well and are extremely cheap out of S.Am. It is economically impossible to compete with the prices. Farm breeding is not economically viable and Asian breeders are not stupid about economics...why waste resources breeding cheap silvers for no $$return when for the same time and equipment investment you can breed all the fancy asian variants or even blacks and make some good money?
Most silvers and blacks are exported out of Peru.
Also greatly affecting price, shipping from S.Am to the US and Europe is quite a lot cheaper than shipping from Asia.
The high price one sees is reflective of what the market will stand for them and not a normal % mark-up.
Arrows are seasonal from the wild....
I am not saying there are not tank/farm bred silvers, certainly the genetic problems one sees could be attributed to that, but usually that takes few generations to happen and tho more often it is a result of bad water when wilds are young imo ( drop-eye etc) and beibg kept at wholesalers facilities or crappy lfs who don;'t chnge water etc

also...I wouldn't trust most LFS for information about anything as far as the source of the fish is concerned. They buy from wholesalers, who are not sure, as they often buy from trans-shippers, who in turn import from wholesalers who won;t tell or don;t exactly know, who in turn buy from fishermen who simply won;t tell....plenty of opportunity for misinformation.
Florida, to the best of my knowledge, has no arow breeding farms, it simply would be a massive losing prospect.

hth to clarify a bit
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THanks for the information David.
 
David, then how come a lot of silvers here have drop eye but the ones that you can get
as wild caught are more likely than not to develop one?

What are the ratios do you think of Captive Bred to Wild Caught Silvers distributed here in the US?

Thanks
 
redtailfool;498233; said:
Majority of the staff members think that you are nothing but hot air and only good for one thing.. starting flame wars in forums .
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because he uses logic and fact?

people jsut cant handle the truth and turn to ingnorance and denial, such as you.

neil has proved me wrong and humiliated me many times before, but i didnt take offense to it like you guys, he is correct in his thinking, This has to be the smartest 20 year old ive ever come across that preceeds a 30-40 year old with "experience".
 
redtailfool;498288; said:
David, then how come a lot of silvers here have drop eye but the ones that you can get
as wild caught are more likely than not to develop one?

What are the ratios do you think of Captive Bred to Wild Caught Silvers distributed here in the US?

Thanks
Click to expand...

What is the cause of drop eye?
 
we have no scientific information about Drop eye... We simply dont know enough about it.

we ESPECIALLY dont know enough about it to classify it as "genetic" or only associated with "captive bred" arowana..

that is illogical and incorrect.

Tell me, How common is it with highpriced Asian arowana? who have been imbred many times to get their fine color?
 
DavidW;498281; said:
In my recent incarnation as an importer and seller of rays I also dealt with a lot of S.American arrows, blacks and silvers. ( I mean a LOT)
My friends/suppliers sell literally millions of young silvers to Asia each season, where they are often grown out to be resold.
Simple economics govern this fish.
, at least as far as the US market is concerned.
silver babies with yolk sacs travel well and are extremely cheap out of S.Am. It is economically impossible to compete with the prices. Farm breeding is not economically viable and Asian breeders are not stupid about economics...why waste resources breeding cheap silvers for no $$return when for the same time and equipment investment you can breed all the fancy asian variants or even blacks and make some good money?
Most silvers and blacks are exported out of Peru.
Also greatly affecting price, shipping from S.Am to the US and Europe is quite a lot cheaper than shipping from Asia.
The high price one sees is reflective of what the market will stand for them and not a normal % mark-up.
Arrows are seasonal from the wild....
I am not saying there are not tank/farm bred silvers, certainly the genetic problems one sees could be attributed to that, but usually that takes few generations to appear in the breeding line and imo more often it is a result of bad water when wilds are young imo ( drop-eye etc) and being kept at wholesalers facilities or crappy lfs who don;'t change water etc

also...I wouldn't trust most LFS for information about anything as far as the source of the fish is concerned. They buy from wholesalers, who are not sure, as they often buy from trans-shippers, who in turn import from wholesalers who won;t tell or don;t exactly know, who in turn buy from fishermen who simply won;t tell....plenty of opportunity for misinformation.
Florida, to the best of my knowledge, has no arow breeding farms, it simply would be a massive losing prospect.

hth to clarify a bit
Click to expand...


thank you sir
 
Neil I had a look at my post and I said...

"And yes there are farms in Asia breeding most of the species of channa we see, including micropeltes, striata, marulius, bleheri etc. Most of the channas you see for sale."

Not all channas, most of the species we see. Have you ever seen a barca for sale? No.

And that's the only solid source I have for captive bred tigs. After reading about that, I was after a wild tig. I asked 2 or 3 people in the UK, and they told me the tigs were captive bred. It's a good magazine, get hold of the article and you'll see.

I'm certainly open to information, maybe most of the silvers in the US are wild, but the people I asked in the UK about silvers wouldn't have lied. ONe wholesaler and one big fish store, both import most of their fish directly, not through another wholesaler, or a transhipper. One of them imports wolf fish, cichla, acestros, hydrolycus etc from south America, yet told me the Aros were captive bred. Again, they'd have no reason to lie.

And in Asia channas are bred for food fish and even sold as feeders, mainly micropeltes.
 
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