Wild strain trimacs vs "pyro" trimacs?

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And so you're saying the ACA CARES program is completely useless?

These people would disagree with you:

ACA Conservation Committee
Chairman Dr. Paul V. Loiselle
Claudia Dickinson


C.A.R.E.S. Conservation Priority List Regional Coordinators

Madagascar - Dr. Paul V. Loiselle

Central America - Juan Miguel Artigas Azas

Lake Victoria Region - Greg Steeves

West Africa - Dr. Anton Lamboj
 
flowerpower said:
Don't be fooled into believing that you're doing a noble and selfless act for the good of the natural world by breeding cichlids in glass cages. It's fun, interesting, educational, lucrative, therapeutic, fulfilling...... narcissistic, self absorbing, fruitless.... , depending on who you're talking to (or about) but not much more than that.
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So can you clarify what you meant by that then?
 
Couldn't agree more, Ed.

Different strokes for different folks!

Matt

flowerpower said:
Listen, I'm all too familiar with this guys videos on YouTube and can totally appreciate the fact that his values in regards to fishkeeping (and probably a whole lot else) may differ from most. I can't knock him though because, hype and gimmicks aside, his trimacs are nice! To assume that he's lying about the lineage of his fish or to not take him seriously because his vernacular doesn't follow your standards is a tad bit ignorant IMO.
As Matt touched on, he's doing what mankind has been doing for millennia (and what we're ALL engaged in with our wet pets) ; capturing, breeding, domesticating, modifying, and cultivating the natural world to suit our aesthetic and functional needs. Don't be fooled into believing that you're doing a noble and selfless act for the good of the natural world by breeding cichlids in glass cages. It's fun, interesting, educational, lucrative, therapeutic, fulfilling...... narcissistic, self absorbing, fruitless.... , depending on who you're talking to (or about) but not much more than that. Come to think of it, were we soooo concerned about preserving natural habitats we'd be more focused on establishing and maintaining domestic lines with a verifiable lineage instead of fawning over f1 and wild fish. As, exportation of these fish becomes more and more prohibitive will the 'pyro trimac' and other gimmicky strains and 'designer' morphs become the norm? I think YES!
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That there is (some) merit in maintaining "pure" populations of endangered fish by hobbysists does not mean that there is no merit in developing and maintaining lines of "fancy" or domestic fish.

The modern cichlid hobby was build on a foundation of fancy discus, fancy angels, fancy "super red" oscars and the like. Same with the livebearer hobby.

As I said, different strokes for different folks!

Matt


aclockworkorange said:
So can you clarify what you meant by that then?
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flowerpower said:
Listen, I'm all too familiar with this guys videos on YouTube and can totally appreciate the fact that his values in regards to fishkeeping (and probably a whole lot else) may differ from most. I can't knock him though because, hype and gimmicks aside, his trimacs are nice! To assume that he's lying about the lineage of his fish or to not take him seriously because his vernacular doesn't follow your standards is a tad bit ignorant IMO.
As Matt touched on, he's doing what mankind has been doing for millennia (and what we're ALL engaged in with our wet pets) ; capturing, breeding, domesticating, modifying, and cultivating the natural world to suit our aesthetic and functional needs. Don't be fooled into believing that you're doing a noble and selfless act for the good of the natural world by breeding cichlids in glass cages. It's fun, interesting, educational, lucrative, therapeutic, fulfilling...... narcissistic, self absorbing, fruitless.... , depending on who you're talking to (or about) but not much more than that. Come to think of it, were we soooo concerned about preserving natural habitats we'd be more focused on establishing and maintaining domestic lines with a verifiable lineage instead of fawning over f1 and wild fish. As, exportation of these fish becomes more and more prohibitive will the 'pyro trimac' and other gimmicky strains and 'designer' morphs become the norm? I think YES!
Click to expand...

You touched on something I happen to agree with. People I have acquired fish from have told me that I have wild or F1 specimens, but since I did not pull them or their parents from the waters myself, I don't believe it, nor do I care, nor do I give my fish to others with those label, other than "reportably wild [F1}...."

I don't see why one cannot be both "...soooo concerned about preserving natural habitats..." and at the same time "...focused on establishing and maintaining domestic lines with a verifiable lineage...." I think your wrong to imply these are two independent subsets.

But I do agree with you that there will be a day when exportation will be illegal or otherwise unavailable and all of us who are "...narcissistic, self absorbing, fruitless..." (? "fruitless?", really?) will have a finite supply of these species and therefore, domestic lines will simply be it going forward. I believe its important to have an eye toward maintaining "provenance" (stealing a word frequently used here) of tank-raised species and, within species, location types.

That said, I think its simply wrong and potentially misleading to attach a label to a trait you are maintaining through breeding, such as this guy is doing with the name "pyro." While the naming diminishes his credibility, it should not affect the credibility of the fish itself, i.e. categorizing it as a hybrid.
 
This thread is funny. First line breeding = hybrids, then line breeding = not keeping to what the fish is supposed to look like, and on and on. Those trimacs pictured look like trimacs. The only thing this guy did wrong was name them something stupid "pyro trimacs".

What this guy is doing is no different that what any of the rest of us that spawn fish are doing. I either buy adults based on there color/traits or I grow out a group of fry and pick the best pair based on color/traits. This is already the start of line breeding and the end of anything natural or wild like. This is not what would happen in the wild at all. From there I often keep a few from most spawns that I like best and breed them to another fish that I have chosen because of looks. Sound familier? Sound exactly like what most of us do?

We keep fish in glass boxes. There is nothing wild like or natural about it. There is nothing that makes a wild caught umbee in a glass box more special then a line bred guppy. I think to often people confuse aquarium keeping with conservation. Conservation is done by saving wild habitat areas and preventing pollution and other factors that endanger fish populations. Conservation is not taking a fish and putting it in a glass box to look at.

The C.A.R.E.S program is nice and does some good work. But it is mainly focusing on keeping fish in the aquarium hobby. Which is important, but does not conserve them in the wild. I have many fish listed on the CARES list that I deal with and think it is important to keep them in the hobby. I'm not fooling myself into believing I'm doing something great or saving the world though.

People get way to bent out of shape over this stuff.
 
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