Anyone who can't admit to their failures as much as their success' shouldn't be listened too, to begin with. Very good info and something I will def be looking into implementing myself.. also could save your entire tank in the future. also curiouse as to "where" such samples should/would be sent too.
Need a "gill sample" can you guys help?
- Thread starter DB junkie
- Start date
My attempt at a "gill sample", the lady ray I took it from, and the lil CB male were all sent to Thad Cochran national warmwater aquaculture center. These guys specialize in catfish but will examine rays if given the opportunity. This place was recommended to me by people on this site that I would consider experts. Not sure what the tests will run, as I have heard nothing back from them yet.
I took the gill sample cause apparently they break down first. Knowing on Friday that they wouldn't receive the ray till Tuesday they recommended this cause they were afraid the gills may be too far broken down by the time they got the fish to be able to tell anything.
My hunch is gill flukes + 8.5 PH + breeding = just too much for a ray to take. I sent the ray to them cause I'm curious if there's noticeable repercusions from keeping them in this kind of water. EVERYONE on this site preaches consistency is key, don't mess with PH, and rays adjust to any kind of water. I disagree, but I'd rather have scientific proof then to go through all the trouble of mixing RO in vats and running experiments on my stock.
What would the actual cause of death be from high ph? Can they test just for something like this, or would it cause a specific problem that could be traced back to ph?
Stress? Seems like rays don't handle it well......
No clue, I'd guess water like this would be hard on osmoregulation. I don't imagine they are designed to cope with all the crap in the water, but who knows? Not like it would be the first time I'm dead wrong. I can't even run big submersible water pumps here without descaling them 2-3 times a year. I don't imagine it's a very good idea to try to raise fish used to soft acidic water in this. IF this stuff did buildup in the fish and they weren't equipped to deal with or excrete it then maybe there would be signs like scale or calcium buildup stored in the fish or not???? I'd think IF this hunch was even remotely right (which it probably isn't) there would be some kind of signs somewhere?
I am by no means an expert, that's why I ended up here, to seek the advice of the "experts" and learn from them, yet I have found no "experts" keeping rays in the water conditions I am, yet everyone still insists they adapt to anything and to not even bother trying to alter the water.
The closest thing I've found to someone keeping rays in this type of water is an ex vendor here that is no longer around cause of all the screwing over he did, even to people that considered him a friend, who had similar tap water. He did a lot of importing of South American species and had nothing but issues with everything dying. He switched to pure RO and a remineralizing mud. I saw fish there that looked wayyyy worse then any rays I'd ever lost and they were still alive. Mine died long before they ever got that bad, yet his seemed to just hang in there week after week. When asked about the RO he said it was the only way to keep anything alive cause the tap water sucked so bad.
Lots of rays handle hard water no problem. But I think they will never live a full life like they would in natural conditions.
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And medicating all the time is probably a major contributor too
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i have super hard and high ph as well. i know what you mean on the descaling. i have found to that mine dont handle alot of stress. it seems that the first sign of stress or something is up they are dead within hours. i make sure to take 20 min twice a day just to watch everyone and make sure that i dont see anything wrong. recently i have lost 2 rays one each time my big girl breeds. the male goes after the other females and they will all be breathing hard. but the 2 girls that havent bred before both passed the next day on both occasions. yet everyone else in the same system even pups are just fine.
Care to explain what this is supposed to mean?
Hope you're not ASSuming I'm using meds all the time.....
It's stupid crap like this that kept me out of this forum and will continue to.
Mods should close this now before people start sharing thoughts and feelings.
I assume he was referring to water conditioners, but I wouldn't consider that a med. I hope you hang around DB. If for nothing else, I'm curious to see how the tests come back
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Water conditioners? Doubtful, common knowledge most use drips - no conditioner.
Last time I shared an experience of sick rays I had 2 pieces of crap from this site later throw my dying rays back in my face in some sort of childish attempt to make me feel bad...... In my eyes this is beyond low, takes a pretty big piece of feces to stoop to that level.
I share thoughts and ideas and have un named dip sticks do nothing but turn any thread into a sad waste of time to even read. Proof is in the history, go look at old threads, same idiots, same problems, and no actions are ever taken. I used to enjoy sharing experiences and updating rays in the media lounge, and even those threads were turned to "rubbish". Just like when you try to help inquiring people with their filtration.....
Eventually you can't help but think it's pretty pointless. Just like the results..... They didn't find crap.
