The End All Red Tail Catfish debate thread!!!! :)

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
bobVillanueva said:
In my opinion, or rather preference, id love the outdoor/indoor pond with a viewing panel. The only down side for me is cleaning and just general maintenance. I cant help but feel extremely limited by glass tanks.

sir, how big of a tank or whats the gradual progression in the increase of the size of the tank are you proposing again sir?


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xleaning is no issue for me i dont do it simple

i started off with a 6x2 and run that for about 5 vyears but soon found you cant keep any large fish in a tank that size long term

i then got a 350g but found that was also to small it would last a few years but most tank busters will out grow it

what most people class as a big tank just wont last

i only have one cat a 28" tigrinus and please take into account thats a dwarf compaired to a rtc or tsn i have had him close to 8 years and it would be unfair to put him in anything smaller than a 8x4x3

big cats dont bend well like a aro which can turn on a dime

i have a 8ft long x 6ft wide x 3ft deep with a 6x2 sump and that is the bare min tank size i would put most of my fish in

cleaning haha i dont do it i have background on all three sides so just use a giant mag float to clean the front glass
i never clean the sand as the rays kick it up turning it over

water changes haha not done one by hand in 3.5 years its on a drip which pumps in 200 gal per day which over flows in the sump

when setting up any big tank you need to plan then plan again before starting

i setup my whole tank in about 3 weeks and that was building the hut its in look at this thread

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/318731-1000-us-gal-project/

you may need to skip a few pages as its 50 pages long but it may give you some ideas
 
T1KARMANN said:
xleaning is no issue for me i dont do it simple

i started off with a 6x2 and run that for about 5 vyears but soon found you cant keep any large fish in a tank that size long term

i then got a 350g but found that was also to small it would last a few years but most tank busters will out grow it

what most people class as a big tank just wont last

i only have one cat a 28" tigrinus and please take into account thats a dwarf compaired to a rtc or tsn i have had him close to 8 years and it would be unfair to put him in anything smaller than a 8x4x3

big cats dont bend well like a aro which can turn on a dime

i have a 8ft long x 6ft wide x 3ft deep with a 6x2 sump and that is the bare min tank size i would put most of my fish in

cleaning haha i dont do it i have background on all three sides so just use a giant mag float to clean the front glass
i never clean the sand as the rays kick it up turning it over

water changes haha not done one by hand in 3.5 years its on a drip which pumps in 200 gal per day which over flows in the sump

when setting up any big tank you need to plan then plan again before starting

i setup my whole tank in about 3 weeks and that was building the hut its in look at this thread

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/318731-1000-us-gal-project/

you may need to skip a few pages as its 50 pages long but it may give you some ideas
Click to expand...

No, i mean with the minimum tank for the RTC as aforementioned sir?

Nice tank, nevertheless.


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Heres my thing with regard to a 1000 gal tank for a RTC. 12 years ago, i had a concrete pond built with almost the same dimensions as T1's tank. 8.5x6x3.5. As a kid, prior to mfk/internet supremacy days(implied), i asked for a arapaima gigas, rtc and a paroon. In more or less 4 years, with me being as inexperienced back those days, the cat grew to more than 3', paroon was around that size as well and the gigas, um, was too big for it already.

That was the first and only time i considered and actually did donate my pets to my classmate who's family owned a local zoo (avilon zoo, philippines) registered with our bureau of parks and wildlife. (Well maybe not. We had a pet monkey way back which we donated as well. Lol). My point being, although that size of a tank, can arguably house a rtc for a while, it would still need upgrading later down the road.

Moreover, its rare enough to find people willing to spend THAT much for a single fish. Chances are, like what i did back then, you buy fish "compatible" with the RTC. And those fish need to be HUGE, mind you. And you end up with an over crowded "big" tank.

Yes it would be okay for a while for a single specimen, but take in to consideration that people will more often than not, add to the inhabitants of the said enclosure which will speed up the time it would take to upgrade.

Hence, logically speaking, it is just not big enough in common scenarios.

Lastly, i think aesthetics and viewing preference are out of the question. Its a very subjective matter which deals with PERSONAL preference and its in the discretion of the owner to pick whether its a pond or a glass tank. If one thinks a pond does not look good, who cares, its out of this topic. i mean, does the fish care if you think its beautiful to watch? no. We need not dive in that area because the concern here is the SPACE needed to house a RTC.


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I think that is an excellent example of what happens to a lot of people in reguards to the Big cats, arrows, ect... You either learn from your mistakes in the past or from threads like this... or you continue to justify keeping large fish in small tanks. and personally I don't have time for the latter to discuss/debate/ect. Husbandry practices because by doing that alone they show no real commitment or concern for the well-being of their pets... Why learn from people doing even less then the minimum, particularly knowing what they are doing? I can deal with ignorance.. no one knows everything... but people who lack any desire to learn just make me wanna slap the stupid outta 'em lol so instead of saying something to get banned I just ignore them...

T1 - Your Tig sir is an amazing example of what "doing it right" is in reguards to housing large fish in what I would and you yourself call "minimal space".. and as you say he's not even a "giant" like an RTC. and most people wouldn't know where to begin to conceive of a 8x6x3 let alone something that may need to be almost 2x that to house an RTC. Which is why when people say they are going to upgrade I try and be positive about it until they prove otherwise ( and yes not nearly enough follow threw as they should).

I actually find water changes somewhat therapudic and my fish seem to enjoy them as well since I spend time with them while doing it... But for a lot of people it is a neccisary evil. Def have plans for a drip down the road for the "final project" as hubby calls it.
 
Yeah most people on here think that RTC will never grow to it's wild size in aquariums. The reason we never see RTC of really large size in home settings is that almost no one keeps them for the time frame required to reach massive sizes. Also water quality, nutrients in the diet, temp, ph all are deciding factors in fish health and ultimately fish growth. I have seen maybe a handful of owners that have kept RTC in pristine conditions for more than just a few years. Honestly with the right filtration and feeding ect, you could technically keep a RTC for life in a 1000 gal tank. Does this mean that's what's best for the fish??? No, but if we are saying the fish surviving 30+ years then yes so long as you upgraded the filtration to handle the increased bioload as the fish grows you could housle a RTC in a 1000 gal fro life. Should it be done? That's really up to the owner. I would think a 1000 gal with the right footprint would last a RTC for at least 10 years under proper conditions. To ensure adequate space for continued growth and health you may want to at the very least double that. A 5k tank for it and it's tankmates would be ideal. 10k is not silly in the sense that yeah massive fish should probably have a massive tank, but most people would find it hard enough to get a tank in the 1-2k range. 5k pushes, and 10k is less than .01% I would wager. We can't have a huge river in our house and if that was what was needed then you would be looking at 1000 gal tanks for tetras and so fourth. :) People will still buy RTC no matter what anyone says so best just to help as much as we can.
 
MonsterMinis said:
I think that is an excellent example of what happens to a lot of people in reguards to the Big cats, arrows, ect... You either learn from your mistakes in the past or from threads like this... or you continue to justify keeping large fish in small tanks. and personally I don't have time for the latter to discuss/debate/ect. Husbandry practices because by doing that alone they show no real commitment or concern for the well-being of their pets... Why learn from people doing even less then the minimum, particularly knowing what they are doing? I can deal with ignorance.. no one knows everything... but people who lack any desire to learn just make me wanna slap the stupid outta 'em lol so instead of saying something to get banned I just ignore them...

T1 - Your Tig sir is an amazing example of what "doing it right" is in reguards to housing large fish in what I would and you yourself call "minimal space".. and as you say he's not even a "giant" like an RTC. and most people wouldn't know where to begin to conceive of a 8x6x3 let alone something that may need to be almost 2x that to house an RTC. Which is why when people say they are going to upgrade I try and be positive about it until they prove otherwise ( and yes not nearly enough follow threw as they should).

I actually find water changes somewhat therapudic and my fish seem to enjoy them as well since I spend time with them while doing it... But for a lot of people it is a neccisary evil. Def have plans for a drip down the road for the "final project" as hubby calls it.
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lol just saw this must have posted as I was typing. I don't think there ever is a final project. :) This is also why I always invite others to stay and share their cats with us so that we can watch them thrive as a community and help each other learn more and more. It's a shame but not much of a way to get around it. I still don't like the way people are bashed instantly though on many sites when they buy a RTC maybe not knowing more that what the shop owner told them to make a sale. Then the get bashed for having a rtc in a 75 gal, ect. THey should have done their homework. Truth is most people don't even do their homework before buying dogs, cats, ferrets, horses, ect. We should always try to educate them in a positive manner. They might actually be the one to build a better home for their fish and continue to share successes. If we tell them it's impossible they will flee in terror. I like water changes also, but I like feeding time the most and adding in new fish! :)
 
Hence my " " mark.. bwahah :FIREdevil he's still learning about fishkeeping (4yrs now and he's learned ALOT since he never owned a tank before he met me).

I'm also pretty oldschool American as I've been called whatever that means.. but I don't think "banning" or making things "illegal" is the way to protect animals or people... imo education is. A community of successful fishkeepers have a lot more "power" then one filled w/ "No" is. How it was when I joined a few years ago now... learned more in the short time here then the 15 odd years prior.. probably because my dad was old school and believed the "fish will grow to the tank/ 1" per gallon." crap... So that's what I learned until I learned better..... and the best way to learn is by having people show you what they did right.
 
necrocanis said:
lol just saw this must have posted as I was typing. I don't think there ever is a final project. :) This is also why I always invite others to stay and share their cats with us so that we can watch them thrive as a community and help each other learn more and more. It's a shame but not much of a way to get around it. I still don't like the way people are bashed instantly though on many sites when they buy a RTC maybe not knowing more that what the shop owner told them to make a sale. Then the get bashed for having a rtc in a 75 gal, ect. THey should have done their homework. Truth is most people don't even do their homework before buying dogs, cats, ferrets, horses, ect. We should always try to educate them in a positive manner. They might actually be the one to build a better home for their fish and continue to share successes. If we tell them it's impossible they will flee in terror. I like water changes also, but I like feeding time the most and adding in new fish! :)
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MonsterMinis said:
Hence my " " mark.. bwahah :FIREdevil he's still learning about fishkeeping (4yrs now and he's learned ALOT since he never owned a tank before he met me).

I'm also pretty oldschool American as I've been called whatever that means.. but I don't think "banning" or making things "illegal" is the way to protect animals or people... imo education is. A community of successful fishkeepers have a lot more "power" then one filled w/ "No" is. How it was when I joined a few years ago now... learned more in the short time here then the 15 odd years prior.. probably because my dad was old school and believed the "fish will grow to the tank/ 1" per gallon." crap... So that's what I learned until I learned better..... and the best way to learn is by having people show you what they did right.
Click to expand...

I really like what both of you had to say about fishkeeping in general here. Too many people are quick to get after people, rather than helping them learn. I knew absolutely nothing about fishkeeping when my first tank showed up on my doorstep (grew up on a farm .... moved to the city after I broke my back). So I thought nothing about keeping the tank and fish, was giving some advice by the owner (he was moving away = free tank). And thought nothing of it for over 3yrs. (The advice was piss poor). I was never a computer guy, so never knew about sites like this. And the only reason I never bought a RTC in those 3 yrs ... I never saw one. Saw my first one in person at an LFS last week. Because of what I've learnt from the "knowledgeable" ones on here ... I'm not buying one. But who's to say who will or will not continue in the hobby and to the upgrades necessary ... most of us are strangers to each other anyways. Its the giving of proper knowledge and encouraging good practices. Not flaming people for bad choices. But myself I could really give 2 hoots what others think .... but there are those who do.
Lastly on my mini rant here.
The word CAN"T was discussed earlier. How I hate that word.
Like I said at the beginning, I broke my back .... 16 yrs. ago. But I'm still able-bodied. I have a bunch of hardware holding my L1,L2,L3 together. If I listened to everyone (doctors, therapists, family, friends and complete strangers) what I CAN'T do. I wouldn't have half the memories I do have. I wouldn't be an active part of my 2 sons lives (9yrs and 4 yrs). I wouldn't even have the job I have nor own my dog (80lbs) nor have a fishtank (I do my water changes with 7 gallon pails ... sometimes it takes all day) .... I know one day I'll be in a wheelchair, it's not an if anymore. And I got to say ARTHRITIS sucks (I'm plagued from my sternum to my kness) But in the end it comes down to one thing .... MEMORIES .... because that's all we've really got after all is said and done. (And before anyone whats to argue with me on this, let me add that anything else falls under LEGACIES that we leave behind).
So no one should be saying someone CAN"T do it ... ever IMO. Instead help people figure out ways they can.

Rant done ... sorry for my intrusion

But on the topic of ponds, being a farmboy/outdoorsman ... I gotta wonder if a pond would be better, after all when these fish are in the wild they see people/creatures approach from above all the time .... they just have surface coverage or deeper pools to hide.
 
my tank was put together fast because i knew i was going to lose both my legs

but a tank even my size would take 6 months to set up so when people say they got a rtc in a grow out tank and they are going to build a bigger tank they should in fact be building that tank the day if not before they even get the rtc to put in a grow out

tigs grow much slower than rtc or tsn my tig grew to 12" fast then slowered right down for ages he was about 20" in the 350 gal and has taken 3 years to grow 8"

the problem is if fish did get to big for my tank it would be very hard to find a buyer with a tank bigger than mine to sell them to

its very easy to over stock any size tank or even buy fish that will get to big
i made this mistake with a lince cat i thought my tank is massive a lince cat will be fine so i got one at 14" and after 1.5 years it grew to 22" and it just look wrong to keep it as even 8ft was to short for a cat thats always moving

so my point is we can all get caught in that buying fish that get to big trap and with allo the info on rtc then people should take not of it before buying
 
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