Unpopular Opinions - Hybrid Cichlids

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Unpopular? Yeah, I know...but, being a grouchy old man...I don't care!

I detest these things. The absolute worst of them are the pathetic specimens like parrots, short-bodies, "over-kokked" flowerhorns...really, anything that has been so genetically mutilated that it can't even function as a fish anymore. When you purposely develop an animal that can't perform the basic functions of life without difficulty, then I do think you've gone too far. When you take fish that should live ten or more years, and mix them up to create something that dies in a couple or three years, you've gone too far. And then when the fish dies, and the distraught owner is weeping and wailing and wringing his/her hands, asking "Why???"...the typical answer is "Well, they don't live very long, because they're all screwed up". We are supposed to be animal lovers....so, why are we screwing them up???

Obviously, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so I won't speak to the visual appeal of hybrids of this sort; I find them literally repulsive, but obviously there are others who feel differently.

Do hybrids occur in nature? Yes, and like most experimental designs, they fail miserably and disappear. They can't compete; natural selection is quick and brutal. The few that survive and breed do so because their mixed parentage affords them some type of advantage over their competitors. But man-made hybrids don't face natural selection; instead, they are coddled and nurtured in an effort to string out their existence, despite their lack of competitive advantage. It's unnatural selection, or perhaps might better be termed survival of the weirdest.

To me, the appeal of aquariums is the chance to watch nature, or at least a reasonable approximation of it. Watching some weird-ass fish bumbling around in an empty aquarium because it'll hurt itself on any decor? Yeah...sounds great...

Species should be kept distinct; the constant "let's cross this one with that one; might be cool!" mentality is already making it difficult to even find true pure specimens. It's all well and good to say "Oh, but we would never allow these crosses to get back into the hobby!" What a load of crap! For every devoted and ethical hobbyist that will carefully keep these mutts from diluting pure lines, there are likely a dozen or more who will sell and/or give them away at the drop of a hat.

If you have a thousand one-gallon cans of paint, in every colour of the rainbow...but you then start mixing this one with that one, and then adding some of this other one, just to mix them up and see what happens....you end up with 1000gallons of grey paint. And...at that point, there ain't no going back.

The flaming will soon follow; I know this is just my opinion...but, look at the thread title; that's what was requested. :)
 
Got to say i am a big advocate for hybrids. I hate to see people breed for deformity's/ Not labeling correctly/ Newbies not knowing what theyre talking about and producing trash. It makes the whole community look bad. Infuriates me on a extreme level even this other day someone was selling tampsoon X carptinis as "texas" messaged the breeder literally said that he just needs them to move. Or when a newb trys to make somthing that's already done, but does it wrong. Saw a guy the other day breed a unfaded saggitae to a carpintis and was like cant wait for red Texas. let alone don't get me started on the fact Every person does the exact same cross and cant think out of the box. People also give up at F1 when F2 they look better. Thats my little rant.
 
I have three tanks 200 gal 55 gal and 37 gal. Recently (2days) I had to move my male Texas from the 200 into the 55 gal because my female dovii was gonna kill him. I didnt understand her aggression because they were both occupying the same tank for about six months with no issues.

(Mind you I had a male dovii that was about 18 in but sadly he jumped out of the tank in the night and I woke up to a missing fish. Come to find out he jumped out the back and under the tank stand so that was that)

Anyway what I didnt realize was the female had laid eggs which had been fertilized by my male texas, which was the intent of the dovii pair but they never spawned…

So now I have about150-200 little Tovii’s. I set up the 37 gal and put about 70-80 of them in there. Im intrigued as to how tgey will look going forward…
 
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Interesting mix. Will be cool to see what they look like.
Welcome to the forum!
 
Im working on breeding my Texas and my Salvini cichlid. They laid eggs once then she ate them a day later have not had any success sense then
 
I think this topic on hybrids has come up before. Some are ugly, some are meh, and some better looking than the 'pure' stuff. I laugh at people who think some hybrids look better because they are a cross of their favorite fish, even when they have weird proportions and bizarre shapes (or nasty color patterns). The most pointless ones are hybrids that basically look like one parent or a bland wild fish. So, wtf.

Maybe we need a controversial thread on 'purebred' fish, some of whom are ugly asf but people rant and rave over them like the be all end all. ? It's about time to rant about cows, one of the ugliest 'man made' species (if they even are) in existence. It's time to rip all the overbred and freaky dogs, too.

Maniacs unite....UP WITH PURITY. Bring your torches and rage, run the heretics out!
 
I think this topic on hybrids has come up before. Some are ugly, some are meh, and some better looking than the 'pure' stuff. I laugh at people who think some hybrids look better because they are a cross of their favorite fish, even when they have weird proportions and bizarre shapes (or nasty color patterns). The most pointless ones are hybrids that basically look like one parent or a bland wild fish. So, wtf.

Maybe we need a controversial thread on 'purebred' fish, some of whom are ugly asf but people rant and rave over them like the be all end all. ? It's about time to rant about cows, one of the ugliest 'man made' species (if they even are) in existence. It's time to rip all the overbred and freaky dogs, too.

Maniacs unite....UP WITH PURITY. Bring your torches and rage, run the heretics out!

"Ugly"..."meh"..."better looking"..."ugly asf"...it sounds as thought the only criterion for whether or not they should exist is whether or not they fit your personal idea of what looks good. Those that don't are "pointless"?

Most dog breeds were originally bred for a purpose or a job, whether that be hunting, retrieving game, defense, etc...but, yeah, many breeds are also bred for their goofy looks, just like fish. Domestic cattle were developed originally for the qualities that make them valuable in agriculture: milk production, meat production, easy handling (i.e. docility)...but, yeah, there are "fancy" breeds of cattle also, bred for appearance, just like fish. And those are single species, simply linebred to develop or subdue certain traits. All dogs are the same species, as are all cattle and horses and other domestic animals. But hybrid fish are crosses between two different wild species, and are all pointless! Even the very few fish that have been bred to do a job...Betta splendens leaps to mind here, and the job would be to win money for their owners by killing other bettas...have now been goofed up and repackaged to the point where they are useless for that original purpose.

Almost all the bison in the U.S. today have a significant admixture of genetic material from domestic cattle; cross-breeding was done to inject some of the docility and other benefits of cattle into the giant pile of wonderful meat that is a bison. Nowadays, there remain only a couple of herds of "pure" bison...I italicize that word because you seem to think that it is somehow evil or funny, but it's not...still in existence. The word used to describe a species that has been crossbred out of existence as a pure form...is "extinct".

But, hey...as long as they look cool, what else really matters?
 
A few hot takes ;)

Hybrid cichlids are just fancy fish... and fancy fish have formed the foundation of the aquarium hobby since like 1100 AD when people started selectively breeding carp for color, finnage and other man-desired characteristics. Take away fancy fish and the aquarium hobby dies.

The good old days were just blissful ignorance. Many of the earliest African cichlids in the hobby were hybrids as people bred "Pseudotropheus zebra" and Aulonacara-complex fish willy nilly, mixed females and didn't think twice about it. Same with new world fish. It was all "Cichlasoma" back in the day without much regard, if any, for collection locations, populations, etc.

The "outrage" over Flowerhorns and the like has roots in xenophobia, douche-baggery and grouchy old men not liking new entrants into "their" hobby.

Trying to split hairs differentiating between line bred and hybrid fancy fish is both futile and pointless. A natural mutation that has been selectively bred to accentuate man-desired characteristics, one that results from two geographic variants of a species (that may or may not be two different species in the future) and two species that are closely related enough to hybridize all produce fish that are different than what is found in nature.

There are irresponsible and stupid people, grifters and charlatans on both the fancy and wild-type sides of the aquarium hobby. Keep the fish you like and keep them well. If you want "pure" fish, source them from the small, small segment of the hobby that knows or cares about provenance.


* slow claps.
Well said
 
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