Prove my dad wrong on oscars

[mybirthdateisfake]

I had a 10in oscar which was originally in a 30gal grow out for my 400gal pond. Today it took enough attacks from my jag in the pond and died. My dad blames me for putting the oscar out the 30gal while I obviously, just tried to do the best for it. I've already told my dad to add structures to the pond so the cichlids could divide territory, but he just wouldn't. Should've that oscar lived in that 30gal for life or was it better to die in the pond?

 

[jjohnwm]

Neither. Those should not be the two options that face this fish.

Buying and combining fish like this with either no research ahead of time that would have warned you of this potential outcome...or knowing about it and willfully ignoring it...and at the same time not having adequate alternate housing...is the problem. And calling your 400-gallon tank a "pond" is just playing word games. If you have a one-acre body of water you can call it a "lake" if you wish...but it's a pond, plain and simple. In terms of natural bodies of water, 400 gallons isn't a pond; it's a puddle.

Harsh? Maybe. But...how long did the Jag hammer on the Oscar? He didn't kill it in seconds, it took some time, and a bunch of repeated and brutal attacks. Did you just sit and watch that? That's harsh.

I'm sitting next to a 30-gallon tank as I type this, and I'm imagining somebody trying to shoehorn a 10-inch Oscar into it. Animal abuse like that is harsh.

Don't you have another thread going with questions about what fish to buy for your hoped-for big pond next year? Perhaps you should be concerned about the fish that you are currently abusing and killing rather than the ones you plan on adding in the future.

And trying to blame this mess on somebody else, i.e. your father, is really the icing on this cake.

 

[Sinister-Kisses]

I obviously, just tried to do the best for it.

Also jumping on the harsh bandwagon here but - nope. You very much did not try to do the best for it.

As already said, NEITHER of those options are okay for an Oscar and NEITHER were the right way to go. You can't seriously think a 10" fish should live in a 30gal tank for more than like 5 minutes?

Your pond is not that large. 400gal is not much bigger than the tanks most people here have. If you take a look at OTHER "pond" posts, they're usually closer to 1000gal or more. 400gal doesn't leave you enough space to try dumb **** like adding a 10" Oscar to a jag's already established territory. Just, wowza.

Please either take this seriously and do some damn research, and stock APPROPRIATELY - or just abandon the hobby entirely since right now it's basically just animal abuse.

 

[esoxlucius]

I don't know what's more amazing here. According to your info you are 92 years old, which is pretty impressive, but the fact your father is still alive just blows me away!! Lol.

I'm guessing that you're not 92, right? And going off the poor Oscar debacle I'm guessing you also haven't really got much of a clue about fishkeeping, right?

Whichever way you slice it I'm afraid you're on a hiding to nothing here.

 

[duanes]

Whenever a cichlid determines an amount of space, be it 150 gallons, or 500 gallons, to be its personal territory, any new cichlids you add will be at a disadvantage and considered a territorial interloper to be vanquished.
If you originally had started the jag, and the oscar together at the same time, when young, they "probably" would have worked out territorial space for each other.
But adding cichlids piecemeal to any tank, big or small, you've got maybe a 50/50 chance that both will live.
In nature a male managuense can easily claim a territory much larger than 400 gallons.

 

[newworld]

My god give the kid a break….u guys never killed fish before? Animal abuse? Don’t keep fish in a glass box then guys…Come on… mybirthdateisfake u did what u thought was best it didn’t work next time do more research and hopefully have a better result…have fun it’s a hobby

 

[Bearsjfk]

I agree with duanes post above. I think anytime you add cichlids into a tank with cichlids that have already an established territory things can go wrong. I found out the hard way a long time ago. I had a 125 gallon African cichlid tank with a ton of hiding spots. I thought I could just add in fish without any repercussions. It took a couple of times before I realized I had to rearrange my whole tank if wanted to add new tank mates. I believe the confusion of establishing new territories allowed the new fish to blend in better and become part of the community. I always prefer to start cichlids out young together, but anytime I’m adding them I always change up the decorations/ hiding spots/break of sight lines.
And try to add more if there aren’t enough. Good luck

 

[mybirthdateisfake]

I am here to say I am very dissapointed at my actions. Because of my failure to do proper research, an innocent oscar has died. I originally started fishkeeping to teach people how to properly keep fish. I live in Indonesia, and if I had to guess, close to 80% of fish kept are abused, mostly by being kept in small tanks. Like betta in cup, goldfish in 5 gal type abuse. You think the 1 inch per gallon rule of thumb is bad? we have one fish per liter. I knew stuff like that was fish abuse, but later on I guess I decided stuff like that was fine. My first ever mistake was buying that oscar. I personally feel that oscar would've been better off in an Indonesian 15 gallon. My own friend has 3 oscars in a 25-30 gallon, and one of my neighbors has arowanas, oscars, GT cichlids, and datnoids in a 100 gallon. Nowadays though, the information on Indonesian websites are more accurate, one I found said an oscar needs a minimum of 52 gallons. I agree that is most likely not large enough, but its better than what it would've been. That still doesn't rule out the possibility that my oscar would've lived in a 15 gallon. In fact, from what I have witnessed, I feel like the chances that an oscar would live in a 15 gal are higher than it living in a 50 gal. I assume it is because people don't like to do research. Back in the 80-90s, my dad and my grandfather kept fish. But because of lack of information, they didn't have large enough tanks. They kept a gigantic flowerhorn in a 30 gallon, goldfish and plecos in a 5 gallon, so and so fourth. I went to my relative's house last month, and one of their giant plecos are still there, still in a 5 gal. I assume most fishkeepers still keep fish like that because they would rather believe the information they got from years ago than from the internet. At the end of the day, life is always better than death, hence why I state my oscar would've been better in a 15 gallon then dead. I personally would live in a 10 foot hole in the ground then die, personal opinion though. All in all, I have made my worst decision in fishkeeping, that is to keep oscars without doing the proper research and having a good place for it to live. I understand why I bought the oscar, and I could have avoided buying it. I do not expect to be forgiven, for I know how large of a mistake this is. I am considering quitting the hobby, for I have learned how truly difficult it is. I'm keeping live animals, after all. You cannot expect caring for living things to be easy, yet that was what I thought starting this hobby.

 

[esoxlucius]

It doesn't really matter what part of the world you're from. If a large fish is housed in an inadequately sized tank it just looks so obvious, and very very wrong, and common sense above all else tells you not to do it.

And just because everybody else does it in your part of the world doesn't automatically give you a free pass to do the same.

I'm a little shocked, or maybe not, by your comment that it's better for your oscar to live in a 15g tank than be dead. Trust me, there is no "living" about that scenario whatsoever, the poor fish would definitely be better off dead.

What I get from your post is a realisation that what you've done is wrong, but I feel you've still got a long way to go before fully understanding what this hobby is all about.

At least you're on the right track.

 

[SalviniCichlidFan]

I am here to say I am very dissapointed at my actions. Because of my failure to do proper research, an innocent oscar has died. I originally started fishkeeping to teach people how to properly keep fish. I live in Indonesia, and if I had to guess, close to 80% of fish kept are abused, mostly by being kept in small tanks. Like betta in cup, goldfish in 5 gal type abuse. You think the 1 inch per gallon rule of thumb is bad? we have one fish per liter. I knew stuff like that was fish abuse, but later on I guess I decided stuff like that was fine. My first ever mistake was buying that oscar. I personally feel that oscar would've been better off in an Indonesian 15 gallon. My own friend has 3 oscars in a 25-30 gallon, and one of my neighbors has arowanas, oscars, GT cichlids, and datnoids in a 100 gallon. Nowadays though, the information on Indonesian websites are more accurate, one I found said an oscar needs a minimum of 52 gallons. I agree that is most likely not large enough, but its better than what it would've been. That still doesn't rule out the possibility that my oscar would've lived in a 15 gallon. In fact, from what I have witnessed, I feel like the chances that an oscar would live in a 15 gal are higher than it living in a 50 gal. I assume it is because people don't like to do research. Back in the 80-90s, my dad and my grandfather kept fish. But because of lack of information, they didn't have large enough tanks. They kept a gigantic flowerhorn in a 30 gallon, goldfish and plecos in a 5 gallon, so and so fourth. I went to my relative's house last month, and one of their giant plecos are still there, still in a 5 gal. I assume most fishkeepers still keep fish like that because they would rather believe the information they got from years ago than from the internet. At the end of the day, life is always better than death, hence why I state my oscar would've been better in a 15 gallon then dead. I personally would live in a 10 foot hole in the ground then die, personal opinion though. All in all, I have made my worst decision in fishkeeping, that is to keep oscars without doing the proper research and having a good place for it to live. I understand why I bought the oscar, and I could have avoided buying it. I do not expect to be forgiven, for I know how large of a mistake this is. I am considering quitting the hobby, for I have learned how truly difficult it is. I'm keeping live animals, after all. You cannot expect caring for living things to be easy, yet that was what I thought starting this hobby.

That's true. I can see where this is coming from. In Chinese movies, there's a lot of fishtanks in homes but I always end up seeing stuff like 29 gallons with 10 parrot cichlids, 10 goldfish, and 10 oscars. I don't know if ppl in these countries don't know that these fish grow to certain sizes or if they just keep fish for aesthetics in their house.

But on another note, the hobby becomes a lot easier when you keep fish fit for your tank sizes. Why keep large aggressive cichlids like parachromis when you can keep more docile and medium-sized fish that are cichlids too? For example, in your 400 gallon there would be absolutely no problem if you keep 4-8 inch cichlids like convicts, fire mouth, jack Dempseys, and even salvinis (in my opinion at least tho I tend to romanticize them *hence my username).

Also, when one keeps cichlids, I would always recommend a backup tank that is large enough for a cichlid in your main cichlid display tank. I generally keep 4-7 inch cichlids so I have a backup 29 gal in case anything goes wrong. Hence, I would recommend you keep cichlids in the 4-8 inch range as they can live by themselves in your 30 gal if you get a too aggressive/bullied fish that you need to isolate.