4th of July Army

[keepinfish]

I think it COULD be related to food... Maybe that is what causes them to crash around and get hurt....
It could be related to water, but that does not explain how public aquariums in the US have raised huge ones.
I feel very lucky with the one i am raising as he is hitting 19" range, and seems to be doing well. He eats every day, and can take out a large piece of tilipia filet! That is ALL i feed him now to be safe..

i have nothing sharp in my tank, and i have a large fake plant hanging from the lid. The "army"(lol) hangs out in this plant and i think it makes him more secure. He darts out to run off SD's and geo's if they come to close. My water level (IMO) is not down as low as it should to make it safer for him when gulping air, or hitting food...
They need to be in an area without large rays that could go after them spooking the armatus, they need to be in an area in the house where they wont get spooked into running into stuff, they need secure lids, and need water level down a few inches from lids.

I think it boils down to they are delicate, but extremely powerful fast fish, and a small injury will cause infection to set in quickly or flat out kill them.

 

[ShadowStryder]

Definitely many variables. I going to work under the assumption that it could be to much thaiminase destroying B1 in turn breaking down the nervous system. Whether frozen or live I want to provide whole fish as food that varies and isnt soley thaimased based foods. Tiger prawns (most market prawns) and smelt are also high in this. Some thiaminase is ok in the diet it just cant be in their whole diet.
This is just the angle I am going to approach it from. Going to wait until they hit the 8-10 inch mark and are more aggro before my conversion.
And yes Keepin Tilapia is devoid of thiaminase.

 

[DB junkie]

Conductivity in the Amazon is around 15 microsiemens. Tested by a very knowledgable person on this board that most in this conversation know and trust. My pure RO water that reads 3 ppm TDS still has a conductivity of 47 microsiemens. Bottom line the water down there is purer then we can ever imagine being able to provide. The fact that this is 20-40 times lower then most of us provide doesn't seem to be worth looking into? lol.

Yes the water out in cali is softer then what most of us have.

I doubt public aquariums try to raise fish without trying to mimic their natural environment. I'm willing to bet they have a pretty fat budget to burn on trying to replicate it very closely.

Like I said, I hope you guys are right an it's something stupid like a vast majority of the country feeding a poor diet..... I'm going to prepare for the worst, or in this case hardest variable to address, and hope for the best, like something easy to address.

Do we all agree it seems Fang to be one of the more successful Armatus raising endevours on this board in the states??? He was fed a thiamanise rich live diet for how long?

Maybe I fed all mine a crappy diet. Maybe the rays made them all commit suicide. My water parameters were pretty constant, the biggest difference amongst all my failing groups was pulling them off live.

One things sure, I'm not going to dismiss something like water when monitoring may be as simple as looking at a number on a meter.

 

[vamptrev]

I didnt even try to get fang off of feeders until he was bigger prob around 16" inches and he died at 22" inches. Then i tried two more armatus from infinate aquatics, i got them off live at about 6 inches and they died for absolutely no reason at 12". I did feed mostly shrimp and smelt though.

We have very clean water up here, not sure the conductivity but maybe this contributed to the longer life that fang had


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[DB junkie]

We have very clean water up here, not sure the conductivity but maybe this contributed to the longer life that fang had


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I know you don't watch conductivity or TDS, but you keep tabs on PH right? Mid to high 7s?

My past experiences were that my Armatus died within about 6 inches of switching over to shrimp and smelt as well...... Could be something, maybe just coincidence, but this holds true for all 3 groups I tried in the past.

 

[keepinfish]

I know you don't watch conductivity or TDS, but you keep tabs on PH right? Mid to high 7s?

My past experiences were that my Armatus died within about 6 inches of switching over to shrimp and smelt as well...... Could be something, maybe just coincidence, but this holds true for all 3 groups I tried in the past.

i have a PH meter on mine and it goes from 7.4-7.6ish (well water), changes a bit throughout the day. Mornings seem to be a bit lower than afternoon.
I am still dripping, and i run wet/dry and a couple canisters.

i have killed a couple armatus too. one made it to 17-18" and the other about 10-12"
both were fed smelt, anchovies, and shrimp.

 

[DB junkie]

i have a PH meter on mine and it goes from 7.4-7.6ish (well water), changes a bit throughout the day. Mornings seem to be a bit lower than afternoon.
I am still dripping, and i run wet/dry and a couple canisters.

i have killed a couple armatus too. one made it to 17-18" and the other about 10-12"
both were fed smelt, anchovies, and shrimp.

Do you still do manual WCs? If so how much how often?

When were each of them converted over from feeders? Was the one that got bigger fed feeders longer then the one that made it to 10-12"??????

I'm still convinced if we all work together on this, we all give honest answers, and we all share the info, we're going to figure it out much faster.....

 

[keepinfish]

Do you still do manual WCs? If so how much how often?

When were each of them converted over from feeders? Was the one that got bigger fed feeders longer then the one that made it to 10-12"??????

I'm still convinced if we all work together on this, we all give honest answers, and we all share the info, we're going to figure it out much faster.....

I bought all at 8" and they were pre-broke for me

i will do manual water changes occasionally. Maybe once a month or two maybe.... if i notice the ph gets below 7.4 or so then i will do one.
i have small one recently with cold water to see if the rays would get frisky, with no luck

 

[SharptoothBass]

Seems like all the fish that died ate smelt and shrimp. Maybe it is the food, i have my doubts about water because it seems if water was the problem it would kill the lil ones too. Seems like the deaths happen most when they are switched off of live. I always feed all of my fish live so ill see what happens when mine get big. This post has become very intereasting.

 

[DB junkie]

Seems like all the fish that died ate smelt and shrimp. Maybe it is the food, i have my doubts about water because it seems if water was the problem it would kill the lil ones too. Seems like the deaths happen most after they are switched off of live. I always feed all of my fish live so ill see what happens when mine get big. This post has become very intereasting.

Water wouldn't kill them right away. Ever heard of smokers dying on their first cigarette? lol. The repercussions may take months or even years before they finally overcome the fish. Something takes a while to claim the fish and all of a sudden it's a mystery death. Easier to say they die for no reason then to try to nail down exactly what it is. At least we all agree they die prematurely. lol

I just can't believe so many of you are so quick to jump on the "it's not the water" band wagon. But then again I should know better considering what I've gone through with my rays. Everyone says and continues to say water doesn't matter, yet the guy writing some of the first publications on freshwater stingray care said "I've never seen or heard of numbers that high, and can't believe your rays are even still alive" when I approached him for advice.

To each their own..... I just hope we eventually get to the bottom of it, and like I said, I'd much rather be wrong about the water and have it be food as I think we all agree that would be much easier to change.