4th of July Army

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
keepinfish said:
I bought all at 8" and they were pre-broke for me :)

i will do manual water changes occasionally. Maybe once a month or two maybe.... if i notice the ph gets below 7.4 or so then i will do one.
i have small one recently with cold water to see if the rays would get frisky, with no luck :(
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Maybe you should try some cold rain water, or RO water. Any kind of water with significantly lower TDS/conductivity is going to be much closer to a real rain then the same water with a different temp. They're supposed to just love TDS/conductivity swings cause that's exactly what happens to the water between the rainy season and the dry season. :naughty:

I was worried about this swinging too quickly but was quickly reassured my rays would actually enjoy it. After going from 1700 ms conductivity to around 800 in a little over a week, I must say I definitely agree that they seem to enjoy it. ;)
 
DB junkie said:
Water wouldn't kill them right away. Ever heard of smokers dying on their first cigarette? lol. The repercussions may take months or even years before they finally overcome the fish. Something takes a while to claim the fish and all of a sudden it's a mystery death. Easier to say they die for no reason then to try to nail down exactly what it is. At least we all agree they die prematurely. lol

I just can't believe so many of you are so quick to jump on the "it's not the water" band wagon. But then again I should know better considering what I've gone through with my rays. Everyone says and continues to say water doesn't matter, yet the guy writing some of the first publications on freshwater stingray care said "I've never seen or heard of numbers that high, and can't believe your rays are even still alive" when I approached him for advice.

To each their own..... I just hope we eventually get to the bottom of it, and like I said, I'd much rather be wrong about the water and have it be food as I think we all agree that would be much easier to change. :)
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Im not on any bandwagon water quality has never been a issue with my area for any type of fish. I currently keep my scomb,stingray and vampire cats together with nothing special done to the water and no current flowing and all fish are fine. They also all eat live. One thing about me is i have never been a fan of non live always saw it as the cheap and easy route JMO. You could very well be right about the water but there isnt a lot of evidence pointing to that right now. I also always found it strange to feed a highly piscivorous freshwater fish crustaceans and smelt(wich in my area the ones i generaly see are brackish to saltwater species) never made since to me. Now to hear 3 people in a row with one thing in common before their fish died a transfer to smelt and shrimp it just leads me personally to belive something with the food is the problem. Like i say you could be right and only time will tell but i can tell you this there is no way in he** i would give my payaras smelt or shrimp right now LOL.
 
Another thing tp consider is what is their general life span? Is it 5 yrs 10 yrs? Maybe in the wild they grow much more rapidly to reach these large sizes but are not a long lived species and just appear to be so because of their size? I ask cause I dont know. Maybe conductivity isnt as important to large predatory fish such as Armatus whose system isnt Osmoregulatory. More questions that I dont have the answer for. I do know that my rays are doing great in the water I provide so my systems are not being revamped so the wisest thing I can do is to adjust their diet and see if it works for me. But I am more than willing to share any info I learn and hopefully help others .
 
Very good point SS. Many fish that grow incredibly fast such as an armatus have a very short live span. The dolphin (mahi-mahi) only lives 3-5 years and they can get up to 90lbs in that time! Their growth rate and appetite is amazing. Is this the same for armatus? Has any one dissected a dead armatus to see if the sexual organs appear mature? A dolphin can start reproducing in I believe in just 6 months from birth.

The opposite tends to be true for slow growing larger fish. Red snapper for example (I use these two fish as Im familiar with them) are rather slow growing. It takes them about 5-7 years to reach sexual maturity and the oldest on record is 56 years old!
 
ShadowStryder said:
I do know that my rays are doing great in the water I provide so my systems are not being revamped so the wisest thing I can do is to adjust their diet and see if it works for me. But I am more than willing to share any info I learn and hopefully help others .
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How do you know they're doing great????? Cause they eat and grow? Mine do that, I just assume they're miserable cause my water is so far from their natural habitat.... What about breeding? Don't they do that when they're happy? Everyone always says their rays are happy, but since they don't talk, I've always been curious how they know.

You know I'm just arguing the other side. I'm sure your rays are happy, but my question is how do we KNOW they're happy if they aren't breeding? Do we simply gauge it when they die based on how long they live?

Ever wonder if the difference between Flower/Tigers and the rest of the rays are their ability to deal with such different water then their natural habitat? Or we going to go with diet on those guys too???? :)
 
I assume they are happy since they are quite active, feed well and the male blackie is tearing up my females trying to breed so I presume that something is right. But what do I know, I am not the ray or Armatus whisperer.
Not all cichlids have to have their natural environment to breed and thrive, nor do rays. Trev and many other ray keepers are perfect examples.
Honestly I prefer to watch my fish as a hobby, and the last thing I intend to do is tell others that they should do things a certain way. What works for one may not for another. If the armatus die, I move on. I dont sweat it, my life is way to busy to let this hobby stress me out.
I was asked a simple question about feeding my Armatus and stated my intentions. Nothing based on facts just an article about thiaminase and predatory fish.
Honestly Al, I hope all the changes work out for you. Its just not something I am into or worry about.
 
Good enough.

Just trying to help. Thought maybe there could be a link between Tigers/Flowers and Armatus.

As someone who repairs things for a living It's gratifying to me to finally fix a problem. When I have fish that I can't keep alive it eats at me till I figure out why. Sounds like I rubbed you the wrong way, and for that I apologize. It's your thread and I don't want to ruin it.
 
Alls good Al. I am not one for debating is all and tend to get set in my ways unless physically proven otherwise.
You are welcome to post in any of my threads any time.
 
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