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[Lupin]

To be honest, and after thinking about it, how can true facts be a derailment when you are talking about facts that pertain directly to the SELLER? He is the center of the thread, he is selling fish, any derogatory information pertaining to seller should not be considered derailing, but an ENHANCEMENT to the thread.

If the information is presented in a non accusatory fashion, strictly as an information statement, these types of comment would help inform buyers. Obviously the marketplace feedback is not working, listen to all the complaints on TOM, but look at his feedback.

I have always said that the truth, though sometimes painful, is the best. And I have had several of my statements, truthful though they may be, have been deleted. Just because derailments are no allowed, maybe you should look at what is truly a derailment and what should be considered and enhancement.

Reverse, I will clear this. When a thread pertains to sales itself, grievances, whether constructive or not, on the other hand should go in another venue. A complaint or feedback that has NOTHING to do with the original post focusing on the sales is classified as a derail. CLEARLY, this has been imposed for quite some time already which many members FAILED to adhere.

This is NOT all about facts or fiction. You can keep telling the truth even if it hurts but bottom line is the complaints are being addressed the WRONG way. Just because we delete the posts that are complaining about the mediocrity of the vendor, does NOT mean we support the actions of the vendor because he failed to push his transactions successfully with his buyer. There IS a rule to follow. No derails. That's very simply put. Put your grievance in the proper place.

May I remind you that we have a disclaimer already imposed.

Disclaimer :
MonsterFishKeepers.com and its staff cannot verify the legitimacy of all deals and are not responsible for anything posted in this forum. All transactions are done at your own risk. Failure to comply with the rules and/or requests from staff members could result in the loss of forum/board privileges. We reserve the right to restrict access to anyone without prior notification.

May I remind you that all transactions are caveat emptor as CLEARLY indicated on the disclaimer. Do you deny this? Should you deny that in the FIRST place, a buyer has to RESEARCH first the background of the seller? If not, please explain what other options there are, if not the feedback itself. What was the WHOLE purpose of the feedback? Should it cease to exist at all because the complainants never even bother with it? Why shouldn't they make full use of it? What EXACTLY is stopping the complainants from filing the negative feedbacks when all it takes is a few clicks and seconds of your time? Is it because they are afraid of retaliation or that they will not be heard? I've already cleared it before that negative feedbacks will NOT be deleted because they were placed in the proper venue. Again, the members should have made FULL USE of the feedback otherwise the purpose is not served.

You are forgetting why the staff implemented the feedback system in the first place. The whole purpose of the feedback system, although rarely has anyone even bother to use it to air their negative feedbacks as attested by what Li had observed when he mentioned only at least 2 negative feedbacks were found (a surprisingly large discrepancy when compared to this noticeable piling number of complaints against a particular individual), is for everyone to place their feedbacks in the proper venue. When someone begins to complain in a thread, the whole thread becomes a total wreck which is WHAT we are trying to avoid.

Logically, when you compare a couple of threads wrecked with complaints to a member profile where the feedback system is situated, which is easier? Will the new buyers be fully aware of the circumstances that had happened before merely by doing a search on their threads or perhaps in a pile of hundreds of threads? If I were the new buyer, the first thing I'd look into is the feedbacks. Where can they be found? Ask the veteran members and they should tell you to click the member profile and look for the feedback system but not the threads. Very easy, UNLIKE the frustrating attempts to click every thread in a clutter of hundreds just to find out what was the transaction like.

Lastly, we ARE listening to every complaint being filed. The complaints filed are a PRIVATE matter in general except for the obvious negative feedbacks which, I believe, should sufficiently weigh down the judgment of the buyer who is looking to transact with that particular seller. How would you not know we are not listening? Corrective actions such as warnings that revocation of their privileges to use this forum, ARE implemented. UNFORTUNATELY, the lax use of the feedback systems make us unable to enforce the much needed actions because the members speak it out loud in the public forum using their threads as personal soapboxes. It is DIFFICULT for us to be convinced whether such transaction had happened UNLIKE what has been posted in the feedback system. I am aware the feedback system itself is not perfectly guaranteed for truth disseminated from lies. THEREFORE, we ask both parties in question to explain their sides and we will see what we can do.

Don't forget that negative feedbacks imposed will IMMEDIATELY alert all the staff. This is the WHOLE purpose of the feedback system. Without anyone's help by using it assuming he had already pushed the transaction, then what can we do? Will simply keeping quiet the transaction gone haywired or destroying the credibility of what you considered the truth by continuously bashing the other party instead of putting it in the proper venue achieve anything? That is for everyone involved to ask themselves.

As asked by Li, where did the other negative feedbacks of the particular individual you are complaining about, go?

 

[armac]

And I am saying I have seen rules, that when not effective, need to be reviewed and changed.

"As asked by Li, where did the other negative feedbacks of the particular individual you are complaining about, go?"

Obviously not effective........no bad feedback.



That is what I am saying, rules are not written is stone unless they came down from the mountain.

Hope that makes my point clear.

 

[Lupin]

Rules are meant to be followed, not broken on an individual's terms. The rules as imposed are agreed by the staff to keep everything in order. This is a community, not a one-man personal soapbox therefore he has not every right to turn the thread to anything as he wishes contrary to what was written on the rules and what was directed in the thread. As long as the rules are written the way they are, you alone cannot change that. It has to be discussed before anything in it must be changed which in this case, currently, the complainants airing their grievances in the wrong venue are clearly violating the rules.

The feedback system should have made it easier for us to disseminate the truth from fiction which some people blow out of proportion to make it more believable. We ask that both parties must explain their sides when they file a complaint to us. We have limited authority in what is needed to be done but proper corrective actions are enforced to prevent the repeat of such incident. The revocation of vendor's privileges for instance prevents further incidents wherein new members end up becoming victims instead of the fraudulent transactions. It is in the hands of the community how the process goes because it is their actions that can influence the outcome of the situation.

YOUR transactions are private. Sort it with the proper authorities. Again, the staff here has limited jurisdiction with what has to be done. We can only listen and implement the much needed corrective actions. That's it and no more.

In the end, the individual should have learned to research first the background. If in doubt, prepare safety measures so you can dispute your claims properly in case fraud happens.

 

[armac]

The feedback system is nothing more than another avenue, that could be used to blow things out of proportion. My point, which I will leave after this, is that if the FEEDBACK is immediate and in IN the thread, and is truthful, then that is far more effective that the present system.

No need to reply. I will not further my argument. To be honest I buy very little here but with the last 2 fiascos here, and I have pm'ed Li with some concerns, this board, no matter what the disclaimers say, could face some liabilty.

have a great day

 

[poly-nomial]

6820 views

 

[Lupin]

Obviously not effective........no bad feedback

I disagree. What are you trying to prove here by saying there is no bad feedback? There were obviously some complaints here but very few ever directed it to the feedback system. You cannot deny there is no bad feedback when a few individuals here posted their complaints already.

 

[DrownedFishonFire]

Can this thread be a sticky because this is going to happen all over again eventually.

People actually need to read this "Saga" to understand the risk involved in all levels from the buyers to the middleman or two to the wholesaler/importer. AND to learn what they can do from what people have said they have done AND what RCLARK is in middle of doing right now.

This is an eye opener for every single person newbie or experienced to remember that there are always risk involved in EVERY single transcation. NO matter how many times you have dealt with the person before. Its always a risk. There's live creatures. Any variables can be thrown in when doing this type of stuff. And the importance of the feedback system.

 

[rclark12]

^i agree, not thrilled that im the example but trust me as obvious as this is, its the worst situation to be stuck in

 

[doubledragon]

I disagree. What are you trying to prove here by saying there is no bad feedback? There were obviously some complaints here but very few ever directed it to the feedback system. You cannot deny there is no bad feedback when a few individuals here posted their complaints already.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with you or reverse on any issue.
I am just saying I have been a long term member, and I just now found out about the feedback system a couple weeks ago with a purchase I made.
Maybe people are not aware of the feedback system. People that know about it, use it. People that don't use it, might have never heard of it, or might not know how important it is.
I learned today, spending the last couple hours reading this thread from beginning to end how important the feedback system is, and I plan on using it from now on.

 

[exoticfishguy]

^i agree, not thrilled that im the example but trust me as obvious as this is, its the worst situation to be stuck in

Ever heard the phrase "Your reap what you sew"?...now you know what that means

Karma's a *****, isn't it?