Big ole Texas needs your help
- Thread starter Ihsnshaik
- Start date
LOL, it's all good.
There's some studies out there that used salt for the same reason.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2761.2001.00306.x/abstract
Abstract:
Channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus (Rafinesque), goldfish, Carassius auratus (L.), striped bass, Morone saxatilis (Walbaum), and Gulf sturgeon, Acipenser oxyrinchus desotoi Vladykov, were acclimatized to fresh water or salinities of 9.0‰ or less and then exposed to Flavobacterium columnare (formerly known as Flexibacter columnaris), the bacterial pathogen that causes columnaris disease. None of the fish acclimatized to 3.0 or 9.0‰ salinity died, and all deaths in lower salinities occurred between 1 and 5 days after exposure to F. columnare. Mortality was 97.7% in fresh water and 67.1% in 1.0‰ salinity for channel catfish (model SE, 1.8) and 66.5% in fresh water and 40.8% in 1.0‰ salinity for goldfish (model SE, 1.2); and 96.9% in fresh water and 61.7% in 1.0‰ salinity for striped bass (model SE, 1.8). After exposure to F. columnare, none of the Gulf sturgeon died. Flavobacterium columnare was isolated from the skin and gills of all fish dying during the experiments, but was not isolated from survivors in fresh water and 1.0‰ salinity 21 days after bacterial exposure. In vitro growth of bacteria was significantly higher in 1.0 or 3.0‰ salinity than in control medium (0.3‰ salinity). However, in vitro adhesion of bacteria was reduced with increasing salinity, which could explain the lower mortality of fish at higher salinities.
And the following paper demonstrates just how important adhesion can be with this pathogen.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848614005079
Abstract
Studies were conducted to determine aspects of water chemistry responsible for large differences in pathogenesis and mortality rates in experimental challenges of channel catfish Ictalurus punctatus with Flavobacterium columnare; challenges were conducted in water supplying either the Stuttgart National Aquaculture Research Center (SNARC) in Stuttgart, Arkansas, or the Warmwater Aquaculture Research Unit (WARU) in Stoneville, Mississippi. Waters differed in two major characteristics: compared to SNARC water, WARU water contained appreciable dissolved organic matter (DOM) and very low concentrations of dissolved calcium and magnesium. In Experiment 1, fish were exposed to a bacterial challenge of F. columnare in aquaria with either SNARC or WARU water. Fish mortality at 4 d was 100% for fish in SNARC water, while no fish died in WARU water. Bacterial adhesion to gill surfaces also differed dramatically in the two waters and was approximately 1900-times higher for fish challenged in SNARC water (more than 800,000 bacterial CFUs/ng extracted DNA) than for fish challenged in WARU water (fewer than 450 CFUs/ng). Experiment 2 was conducted with a lower bacterial challenge to determine which factor, DOM or divalent cation concentration, caused the difference in mortality seen in Experiment 1. Complete removal of DOM from WARU water by carbon filtration did not affect bacterial adhesion to gills nor resulted in greater mortality in challenged fish. Consequently, DOM did not contribute to the differences in mortality seen in Experiment 1. However, removal of most calcium and magnesium from SNARC water by ion-exchange filtration resulted in decreased bacterial adhesion to gill and decreased mortality compared to un-altered SNARC water. It appears that the concentration of divalent cations (hardness) affects the pathogenesis of columnaris disease.
There's some studies out there that used salt for the same reason.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1365-2761.2001.00306.x/abstract
Abstract:
Channel catfish, Ictalurus punctatus (Rafinesque), goldfish, Carassius auratus (L.), striped bass, Morone saxatilis (Walbaum), and Gulf sturgeon, Acipenser oxyrinchus desotoi Vladykov, were acclimatized to fresh water or salinities of 9.0‰ or less and then exposed to Flavobacterium columnare (formerly known as Flexibacter columnaris), the bacterial pathogen that causes columnaris disease. None of the fish acclimatized to 3.0 or 9.0‰ salinity died, and all deaths in lower salinities occurred between 1 and 5 days after exposure to F. columnare. Mortality was 97.7% in fresh water and 67.1% in 1.0‰ salinity for channel catfish (model SE, 1.8) and 66.5% in fresh water and 40.8% in 1.0‰ salinity for goldfish (model SE, 1.2); and 96.9% in fresh water and 61.7% in 1.0‰ salinity for striped bass (model SE, 1.8). After exposure to F. columnare, none of the Gulf sturgeon died. Flavobacterium columnare was isolated from the skin and gills of all fish dying during the experiments, but was not isolated from survivors in fresh water and 1.0‰ salinity 21 days after bacterial exposure. In vitro growth of bacteria was significantly higher in 1.0 or 3.0‰ salinity than in control medium (0.3‰ salinity). However, in vitro adhesion of bacteria was reduced with increasing salinity, which could explain the lower mortality of fish at higher salinities.
And the following paper demonstrates just how important adhesion can be with this pathogen.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0044848614005079
Abstract
Studies were conducted to determine aspects of water chemistry responsible for large differences in pathogenesis and mortality rates in experimental challenges of channel catfish Ictalurus punctatus with Flavobacterium columnare; challenges were conducted in water supplying either the Stuttgart National Aquaculture Research Center (SNARC) in Stuttgart, Arkansas, or the Warmwater Aquaculture Research Unit (WARU) in Stoneville, Mississippi. Waters differed in two major characteristics: compared to SNARC water, WARU water contained appreciable dissolved organic matter (DOM) and very low concentrations of dissolved calcium and magnesium. In Experiment 1, fish were exposed to a bacterial challenge of F. columnare in aquaria with either SNARC or WARU water. Fish mortality at 4 d was 100% for fish in SNARC water, while no fish died in WARU water. Bacterial adhesion to gill surfaces also differed dramatically in the two waters and was approximately 1900-times higher for fish challenged in SNARC water (more than 800,000 bacterial CFUs/ng extracted DNA) than for fish challenged in WARU water (fewer than 450 CFUs/ng). Experiment 2 was conducted with a lower bacterial challenge to determine which factor, DOM or divalent cation concentration, caused the difference in mortality seen in Experiment 1. Complete removal of DOM from WARU water by carbon filtration did not affect bacterial adhesion to gills nor resulted in greater mortality in challenged fish. Consequently, DOM did not contribute to the differences in mortality seen in Experiment 1. However, removal of most calcium and magnesium from SNARC water by ion-exchange filtration resulted in decreased bacterial adhesion to gill and decreased mortality compared to un-altered SNARC water. It appears that the concentration of divalent cations (hardness) affects the pathogenesis of columnaris disease.
Thanks so much for the information! Okay so now his mouth is not as inflamed as before so I'm assuming the meds are working. He is trying to open and shut his mouth before he couldn't even do that. His sore is still there but I can see that it got better. He is going strong so far but he won't eat. If he gets better within a few days but doesn't eat I will syringe feed him so he can get some strength. It's looking good but usually when things go good they end up getting bad real fast lol
If you do force feed it with a syringe, be sure the tube is long enough to literally to down its throat. You'll have to handle him out of water. Here's a trick I used...have a bucket of water to put him in cuz a lot of food will come out once you return him into water. This will save you the hassle of a very messy tank. From experience, a lot of food will come out but most will remain in its stomach if you forced it deep enough.
I was thinking I have a syringe and I can put airline tubing connected to it and force feed him that way. This is how my father aggressively feeds his saltwater fish but he incorporates medication into his food.
Thank you thats some good advice. Ill just have a bucket with tank water ready to put him in after I dose him. I will wait until Sunday thats a week almost with no food. I know these fish are hardy and probably can do a month or two without food but I need him to fight back his primary and secondary infections he might have. So far so good I mean hes healing it looks better.
Unusual thing is swims to the food and stops and just looks. I know its because he can't close and open his mouth to get the suction he needs to gulp it down.
Something like this obviously nothing that long maybe 3 inches in tubing
I personally wouldn't force feed him. How long has it been since he last ate? Force feeding is pretty stressful, and duck lips is highly lethal. Fish'll be lucky to live through the columnaris infection, he doesn't really need the extra stress does he?
fish can go a LONG time without eating.
fish can go a LONG time without eating.
About a week. He's not looking so good. He's got mildly worse but not he's stable. His breathing is heavy I medicated again and still nothing. I won't force feed him then.
Sorry you're dealing with this, I gather from other posts you're quite fond of this texas. Less stress is best, I hope you're leaving the tank light off during all of this
