Calling fellow "nerds"....

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AroW;1260198; said:
Keep in mind that everything and anything that we know are human interpretations of what is true and is not (yes, even the fundamental laws of physics are interpretations based on our perceptions). As such, it is subject to human flaws. Perhaps there are just some things the human brain was never designed to comprehend ... you can have expert physicists debate all they want IMO, but in the end, they are still going in mindless logical circles (albeit theirs are more complex in a sense)

Grat thoughts, especially when you talk about the laws of thermodynamics. I know of a lot of scientists (:D see earlier post) who would argue that some of these laws would of had to have been broken for our earth to be formed, and for evolution to take place. So if they can be be broken...are they laws? Do we just think they are? (as the above quote might suggest)....or is there someone who is enabled to break these laws? :D
 
bigspizz;1260332; said:
The headache is called fear...:) For me anyways. The feeling of helplessness. If you guys look up "the accretion theory" (quick read) You will understand what I mean when I say, we are not in control. Our planet has an expiration date, beyond our control, and like you said our "instincts" can sense this. Arow, you are speaking my language!!!!



The way I see it is, does it really matter? Is it even relevant? It is so far into the future that our current methods of using our perceptions to draw some of these conclusions is kind of irrelevant. Kind of like a baby who hasnt been born yet,, who at the same time is thinking about what life has to offer. Or what life has to offer---after death. Really no physical meaning to all that. We're trying to predict what happens in the almost infinite future(for our purposes anyway we can consider it infinite), but that realm is so much more different than the realm that we live in that sometimes I wonder if it makes sense to go through all those complicated reasoning anyway.. Kind of like the saying if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.. well, if we used irrelevant logic then we get irrelevant results.. The dinosaurs could have never predicted global warming for example, so who are we to try to predict the fate of the universe? I am not an atheist by the way, and sometimes I feel that people sometimes can feel too absolute in their way of thinking.


Interesting quote BTW Straight from Wikipedia btw:

" Paul Erdos said

God may not play dice with the universe, but something strange is going on with the prime numbers. [Referring to Albert Einstein's famous belief that "God does not play dice with the universe."]

In a 1975 lecture, Don Zagier commented

There are two facts about the distribution of prime numbers of which I hope to convince you so overwhelmingly that they will be permanently engraved in your hearts. The first is that, despite their simple definition and role as the building blocks of the natural numbers, the prime numbers grow like weeds among the natural numbers, seeming to obey no other law than that of chance, and nobody can predict where the next one will sprout. The second fact is even more astonishing, for it states just the opposite: that the prime numbers exhibit stunning regularity, that there are laws governing their behavior, and that they obey these laws with almost military precision." "



The way I see it is, the only really Truth in this world is when that truth has contradictions.. You know those contradictory quotes we hear everyday, things such as If you want to be successful, "Act always as if the future of the Universe depended on what you did ,while laughing at yourself for thinking whatever you do makes any difference". The more contradictions it has, the truer a statement or experience in life is, dont you think? Like how to treat women. You have to treat them nice if you want them to like you, but you must also not be too nice and be an ******* if you want some respect. You follow either one too much and ignore the other, youre just asking for trouble in life. Work too hard--you get burned out and your life fazes out like a match. Get too lazy--you end up a loser in life and waste away.

BTW I dont have any thing related to a liberal arts background and I have never read a philosophy book, but thinking about these things dont need any education in it, just good old common sense. If you cant explain something in an easy to understand way, you dont understand something at all.
 
hamato_yoshii;1260910; said:
Grat thoughts, especially when you talk about the laws of thermodynamics. I know of a lot of scientists (:D see earlier post) who would argue that some of these laws would of had to have been broken for our earth to be formed, and for evolution to take place. So if they can be be broken...are they laws? Do we just think they are? (as the above quote might suggest)....or is there someone who is enabled to break these laws? :D

All these laws are based on our perceptions right here on earth. If some contradiction comes up, its no longer a law.

It is interesting how if you look at a lot of the recent advance theories in physics these days have a lot of contradictions within themselves. These fundamental principles actually accommodate for these contradictions by including it in the first place. Like how physicist found these subatomic particles that can spin both clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time(this is what they actually found). Maybe things dont work only one way or another if you look at it at a deep enough level.

The deeper you go into these things, the weirder and more out of control and contradictory things gets. Every simple thing can be hard if you look into the deep enough. For me, thats a sign that we a delving into a new realm and are quickly approaching the limits and we should abandon it at some point. Kind of like those pointless why questions asked by annoying little kids? You know, the ones that go like Why did day go to the store?. Ans. Why? Ans____ Why? Ans-___ and it goes on and on and on
 
Rakie;1260619; said:
If anybody in this thread read MY post you would see my reference to that.

By the way, just a note. The idea of life coming/originating from another planet and then coming here is at the very least interesting, but it doesnt solve the dilemma of where the life came from in the first place. All it is, is a fancy way to divert the argument to a different place (interestingly enough, a different planet:D), instead of approaching the real issue, which the origin of life.
 
hamato_yoshii;1261258; said:
By the way, just a note. The idea of life coming/originating from another planet and then coming here is at the very least interesting, but it doesnt solve the dilemma of where the life came from in the first place. All it is, is a fancy way to divert the argument to a different place (interestingly enough, a different planet:D), instead of approaching the real issue, which the origin of life.

lol, yeah I know, but thats because I know better then to stir up an argument about god. id just end up getting banned or hated by the pope :D
 
Rakie;1261676; said:
lol, yeah I know, but thats because I know better then to stir up an argument about god. id just end up getting banned or hated by the pope :D

Would worry me, I don't believe in anything... Anything. I think the earth was always here, and humans and dinosaurs bacteria, you know.
 
hamato_yoshii;1260078; said:
I find it interesting that you are ready and willing to accept that there just "is" life out there, even though there isnt proof of it, and that you personally believe that we wont really be able to discover it even if it was out there, but you are hesitant to possibly accept the idea that maybe our planet is the only one with life ("intelligent") on it. Is it that hard to think that maybe we are unique?

there may not be proof of it...but hold a penny above your head. there is no deffinite proof that if you let go it'll drop, but you can make an educated decision that it will. now drop that penny...hopefully it just hit you in the head.

there are a lot of things we dont understand....simply read this article and i can almost gaurentee you will get a headache trying to understand the concepts involved http://www.scottaaronson.com/writings/bignumbers.html
 
hamato_yoshii;1260068; said:
I'm not (necessarily) ruling out life, all though I dont believe that there is life out there, and it also depends on how people define the "intelligent" part. M point is simply that the argument that the vastness of the universe automatically means thats there has to be life out there, simply is not logical. You may FEEL like that makes sense, and I wont argue with that, but that really is not any sort of evidence for your point.


Sorry to bring up such an old post. I have been at work all day.:( Anyway, this is just what I belive. The majority of religions out there are based on nothing other than beliefs. Some people's entire lives revolve around religions that are completely factless. No one has ever seen God, yet so many people believe in Him with absolutely zero evidence. Also, I have noticed that most people in this thread are thinking small. Like bacteria. I think we need to think bigger. I think that humans think too highly of themselves. We have a hard time believing that there could be something bigger and smarter than ourselves. I think that we would have a hard time thinking that we are a small part of something much larger and more important than everything we know. I also believe that what we know about space is so insignificant, it would be impossible to scientifically determine what is actually out there.
 
Pixy Blood;1261739; said:
Would worry me, I don't believe in anything... Anything. I think the earth was always here, and humans and dinosaurs bacteria, you know.

Whether you want to believe in "anything" or not, life originated from somewhere. The question is where did it come from?
 
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