Carp/goldfish hybrid

[Noto]

i dont see any reason why they would not be able to, after all they are the same species, just different color over several generations of selectively breeding common carp. koi are carp

The OP was talking about goldfish X carp, not koi X carp. Goldfish are Carrassius auratus, koi and common carp are Cyprinus carpio.

I must say I agree with FlaringShutter. Why go to all the effort to produce a fish which will quite likely have health problems, and will in no way be superior to either parent fish?

I just don't understand the fascination with hybrids.

 

[MN_Rebel]

The OP was talking about goldfish X carp, not koi X carp. Goldfish are Carrassius auratus, koi and common carp are Cyprinus carpio.

I must say I agree with FlaringShutter. Why go to all the effort to produce a fish which will quite likely have health problems, and will in no way be superior to either parent fish?

I just don't understand the fascination with hybrids.

Oh i see hardcore purist....how you know that carp/goldfish hybrids will have health problems? Or you just believe FlaringShutter? Actually goldfish/carp hybrids are superior by become super hardy and fertile in some ponds/small lakes. And theres some colorful hybrids too but these were in Japanese.

 

[Noto]

Hybrids between closely-related species frequently show 'hybrid vigor', but hybrids between less-closely related species very often have poorly-developed organs and other health problems, due to their genes trying to build two different animals with different physiologies and characteristics.

Besides, one you've got fertile hybrids, you run the risk of contaminating existing stock so that true goldfish or true koi become difficult or impossible to find. I think it's an irresponsible practice with no real benefits.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Hybrids between closely-related species frequently show 'hybrid vigor', but hybrids between less-closely related species very often have poorly-developed organs and other health problems, due to their genes trying to build two different animals with different physiologies and characteristics.

Besides, one you've got fertile hybrids, you run the risk of contaminating existing stock so that true goldfish or true koi become difficult or impossible to find. I think it's an irresponsible practice with no real benefits.

Lol! i love to see someone went freak out on the hybrid plan for no reason!Yet common carp and goldfish are overpopulating in all over the world except Antarctica so we dont need have to worry about lost purebred carp and goldfish. The hybrid populations in Minnesota have no health problems so wheres your proof that they have health problems? You worry too much about contaminating the pure stock which wont went extinct. We dont need to worry about koi, they are not wild carp either, just a color strain of common carp. Actually all goldfish in pet store are hybrids.

Whats your problem? Its not your fish either. If you dont like what OP planning to try make hybrid out of two most common species, then dont post in here no matter how you want to ruin his plans for no reason.

 

[Noto]

There's no need to be hostile.

I'm pointing out some possible cons so that the OP can make a well-thought-out decision based on the welfare of the fish as well as his or her own curiosity.

I am all too aware of the abundance of goldfish and common carp in North America, as well as their native Eurasia; that has nothing to do with anything. I'm not talking about wild populations here, I'm talking about the captive strains beloved by hobbyists. This has become an issue already with snakes- the great numbers of hybrids among and between kingsnakes, milk snakes, rat snakes, and corn snakes has made it difficult for hobbyists to know what they have.

Petstore goldfish are hybrids? Where are you getting this? And how do you know the hybrid pops in MN have no health problems? Do you have some information on longevity, embryonic mortality, etc? Just because there are a lot of them doesn't mean they have overall good health.

Again, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's plans. And I'm not entirely against hybridization experiments when there is some goal in mind- superior food production, for example. I just don't see any pros of doing this- if goldfish are too small for you, get a koi, if koi are too big, get a goldfish.

 

[MN_Rebel]

There's no need to be hostile.

I'm pointing out some possible cons so that the OP can make a well-thought-out decision based on the welfare of the fish as well as his or her own curiosity.

I am all too aware of the abundance of goldfish and common carp in North America, as well as their native Eurasia; that has nothing to do with anything. I'm not talking about wild populations here, I'm talking about the captive strains beloved by hobbyists. This has become an issue already with snakes- the great numbers of hybrids among and between kingsnakes, milk snakes, rat snakes, and corn snakes has made it difficult for hobbyists to know what they have.

Petstore goldfish are hybrids? Where are you getting this? And how do you know the hybrid pops in MN have no health problems? Do you have some information on longevity, embryonic mortality, etc? Just because there are a lot of them doesn't mean they have overall good health.

Again, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's plans. And I'm not entirely against hybridization experiments when there is some goal in mind- superior food production, for example. I just don't see any pros of doing this- if goldfish are too small for you, get a koi, if koi are too big, get a goldfish.

Actually you do make it sounds like you wanna ruin the OP's plan. The wild hybrids populations are actually do well and outnumber the pure parents. If they have health problems, they wont be thriving in the wild..duh! Predators take care of them da da da da da!

Yes fancy goldfish and fancy koi are hybrids with one or two different species in along down the line when the fancy strains were created, what you think where they get unnatural looks from? Majority fish in LFS are already hybrids. Guppies, angelfish, swordtails, platies, discus, mollies, corys, midas etc are already hybrids. Butterfly koi are not actually pure but a hybrid between common carp and the river longfin carp of Asia.

So just let Op what he wants, sorry dude. Im sure he's wary about not let his hybrids become mislabelled.

Its better get pure wild goldfish from their native home in Asia and fishing out the carp out of the river if you want purebred.

 

[ValGal20]

Isnt that the whole theory behind Parrot Cichlids? Arent they hybrid? and I dont see any "point" in them. Just humans messin with mother nature. O' Course I shouldnt complain- I have fancy goldfish- farthest from mother natures design, and definately not something you would find in the wild!

 

[Dreamsofpeace54]

i love hybrids.

 

[MN_Rebel]

Isnt that the whole theory behind Parrot Cichlids? Arent they hybrid? and I dont see any "point" in them. Just humans messin with mother nature. O' Course I shouldnt complain- I have fancy goldfish- farthest from mother natures design, and definately not something you would find in the wild!

Yeah i know what you mean. Koi and goldfish are farthest from purebred stock, as they have TOO much random genetics which the purebred (wild stock) have little or none. Feeder goldfish and bubble eye could have same parents. Purebred fancy goldfish with no random genetics are very rare.

 

[Noto]

Parrot cichlids are a classic example of why hybrids shouldn't be made haphazardly. The poor things can't even close their mouths.

MN- goldfish are not hybrids. There are no orange or calico or egg-shaped or double-finned wild fish that the original gibbel carp were crossed with- they were just mutant gibbels. Pure Carrassius auratus. Same for koi- just mutant Cyprinus carpio. I haven't been able to find a definite species ID for the 'Indonesian longfin carp' in the ancestry of the butterfly koi, so I couldn't say whether they should be considered hybrids. Again, many koi breeders are alarmed by the presence of butterfly koi and must try hard to be sure their stocks don't become contaminated.

As for your MN hybrids- you don't know how many generations of stunted, spontaneously aborted, or otherwise unhealthy fish had to be produced before a few vigorous ones made it. And just because there are a lot of them doesn't mean there aren't continuing health problems.

It's true that there are many hybrid strains of aquarium fish, which is a source of frustration for more serious hobbyists- which was one of my original points. However, all the fish you mentioned (I hadn't heard there was much contamination among guppies or cories) involve hybridization between closely-related species within a single genus; common carp and gibbel carp are not that closely related.

You shouldn't have to choose between wild-type or possible hybrids; you should be able to go to the store and buy a comet or lionhead or whatever without worrying that it may be a half-carp that will grow to 24".

That's all I've got. Carry on.