"Common" CB Senegals vs Nigerian wild caught. Diff Sp?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo

Could there be a different subspecies at play here?

  • I think so

    Votes: 1 8.3%

  • No ways

    Votes: 11 91.7%

  • Maybe?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    12
"Lastly I think it's kind of ****ed up that so many here would want to discourage someone who has a passion for these fish beyond keeping them in a tank, and only wants to learn more about them"

No one is discouraging him. We are teaching whats correct.


"deny the notion that there are undiscovered species or subspecies".

I think we agreed several times that there are more than likely undescovered species. Only disagreed that he doesnt own one of them.
 
jaws7777 said:
No one is discouraging him. We are teaching whats correct.
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To be fair it felt rather discouraging, maybe that or the fact that I've had only 3 hours of sleep in the past 24 hrs

Totally agree on the species thing here, just a sen from Nigeria who is green with a funky shape :D
 
okay so I think plenty of scientific and case study information has been presented, so I don't have much to add. it would be cool if Hendre Hendre does a DNA test on his WC sen & CB sen. Even if they are different, if the issue wants to be pursued further get a sample size of at least 30 WC sens. Then compare DNA and appearance between them and then the CBs. Then we can get some results. Perhaps that is a case study you can do with the professor??? Especially if WC are easily available over there.

1. phenotypic variation does NOT necessarily equal major genetic variation. Phenotype or "appearance" is basically what genes are turned on in relation to the environment. Genotype is the actual genetic code/DNA.think of all the substrate differences resulting in pattern differences on the same fish.

2. In regards to CB polys, typically the flat headshape gets more prominant and deformity happens gradually over successive inbreeding.

here is a good basic article explaining inbreeding vs. crossbreeding etc.
https://katesfamilypets.com/inbreeding-linebreeding-and-crossbreeding-in-dogs/

3. some words to look up "convergent evolution" and "allopatric speciation."
https://biologydictionary.net/convergent-evolution/
https://biologydictionary.net/allopatric-speciation/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982212012699

However, we do not know if the WC sen is isolated enough from other WC sens and if there was even a major environmental difference. Again, we would need a major sample size of WC sens and then compare that to CB sens.

4. Tail shape or pattern variation is not necessarily indicative of a completely different species. I really like the idea and the speculation, but run some tests. Unfortunately, I think it is probably just a WC sen, but again, if your hearts in it..... would say go for doing some tests. Would definitely be a cool to see the results.

Vancouver_98683 said:
I'm gonna spam Hendre Hendre thread with the Designer Gucci version. Bam here it is!

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holy **** it looks like a Ponyta (fire pokemon). That is one Gucci sen. :)
I saw somebody post an arrowana like this and it made me really mad cause the fish looked like it was having trouble swimming in that one particular instance. Do long fin senegals have trouble swimming? Not against the gucci sen, just wondering. I'm all for creating new hybrids as long as it doesn't adversely affect the fish's function. You know I love those Dorothy K's lol. Looks like maybe a long fin sen and then mix with some DNA for red in the fins? Polypterus Senegal "Ponyta."

latest
 
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clm08k said:
okay so I think plenty of scientific and case study information has been presented, so I don't have much to add. it would be cool if Hendre Hendre does a DNA test on his WC sen & CB sen. Even if they are different, if the issue wants to be pursued further get a sample size of at least 30 WC sens. Then compare DNA and appearance between them and then the CBs. Then we can get some results. Perhaps that is a case study you can do with the professor??? Especially if WC are easily available over there.
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We decided to not even look at genes, can reveal more questions than answers and just isn't worth it at this point. Especially with the apparent malleability of them

What I'd give for 30 sens haha, apparently the only reason the guy even had these sens is because he was splitting shipments with another guy. Professor knows people so who knows ;)

I'll definitely want to look into the variance with polys more, very nice links there. Makes more sense than most of the stuff on this thread :)
 
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Mighty Wizard Mighty Wizard I appreciate your scientific posts and always enjoy reading them, but easy on the insults. I laughed at loud at the part for J jaws7777 being a simpleton and needing to read a book. I think that’s the most farfetched furthest from the truth statement I’ve heard on this entire thread. Lol. They aren’t needed. (That goes for everyone posting them.) This isn’t the cichlid forum :p.
 
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clm08k said:
Mighty Wizard Mighty Wizard I appreciate your scientific posts and always enjoy reading them, but easy on the insults. I laughed at loud at the part for J jaws7777 being a simpleton and needing to read a book. I think that’s the most farfetched furthest from the truth statement I’ve heard on this entire thread. Lol. They aren’t needed. (That goes for everyone posting them.) This isn’t the cichlid forum :p.
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Oh that cichlid forum...
 
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Vancouver_98683 said:
If there are any of u wanting to see the designer 'Gucci Sen' again. Look at post #10 & 12. Post is now #31. Great discussions goin on.... :)

- Gucci Mane

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have you seen the new YouTube rap sensation “Jake Paul.” Apparently he’s a hit with the kids. I found out about him two days ago. That is his go to dance move.
 
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clm08k said:
have you seen the new YouTube rap sensation “Jake Paul.” Apparently he’s a hit with the kids. I found out about him two days ago. That is his go to dance move.
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OH .MY.GOD.

My kids have been singing "i love you bro....blah blah blah"...i wanna rip my ears off lol
 
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clm08k said:
Mighty Wizard Mighty Wizard I appreciate your scientific posts and always enjoy reading them, but easy on the insults. I laughed at loud at the part for J jaws7777 being a simpleton and needing to read a book. I think that’s the most farfetched furthest from the truth statement I’ve heard on this entire thread. Lol. They aren’t needed. (That goes for everyone posting them.) This isn’t the cichlid forum :p.
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Yes about that, my patience was wearing thin and I sort of lost my temper. Ultimately, adding insults will only take away from a valid argument, and it's something I usually try not to do.

So I really am sorry if I offended anyone.

Just for the record, I never actually called jaws a simpleton. I was only reflecting on what he said himself. :D
 
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