Electric Blue Jack Dempsey ??

[whopjag]

I have an empty tank running in the garage. Thought about stocking it with Festae fry to sell but this EBJD thing may be better

Where were you gonna purchase the Fastae fry ???

 

[Sab_Fan]

Time for some profiteering, man. Buy 'em up and sell them here. Or something. They are still at their lowest $25 around here.

yeah, I think you're on to something there

I have definitely seen them well under $20 . . . where I see them listed for more, they just don't sell . . . my LFS has a 2.5" EBJD for $29.99 . . . good looking one too . . . that fish has been in there for over two months now

 

[Gruff Master]

Where were you gonna purchase the Fastae fry ???

Now how could I possibly reveal that info without shooting myself in the foot! Just Kidding. A friend of mine has a few left that he can't sell and I frequent the shop of a great breeder who has a tank full of them. I'm a valued customer so we make arrangements. There's not a great demand for specialty fish in my city. I think that's why cichlids like Festae and EBJD are not sought after here. That dictates the price.

 

[pat3612]

If anyone starts shipping them could you let me know I am looking for some new ones for my bloodline.

 

[peathenster]

It should have happened again in the trade, i dont trust that he just happend to stumble upon it and the same anomaly has not occurred for any one else. If the blue gene is common enough in the wild that some guy was lucky enough to catch 2 and have em breed in the aquarium it should have happened again.

Let's see if we can make it simple:

1. When a gene gets passed along from generation to generation, it accumulates mutations randomly and at very low frequency. Mutations happen independently in different individual organisms. Mutation rates are usually in the ballpark of 1% change per million years. Yes, per million years.

2. As a result, in a natural population, each gene can exist in many different forms with usually (but not always) subtle differences. They are called "alleles". These alleles may or may not be functionally different.

3. For each gene, different individuals can carry different combinations of these alleles.

4. For simplicity, let's consider JDs as diploids (which is probably the case anyway). It means one fish carries two alleles of each gene. The two alleles can be the same (homozygous), or different (heterozygous).

5. If a particular allele confers a deleterious effect on the fish carrying it, and only one copy of this allele is needed in the fish for this to happen ("dominant"), all fish carrying this allele would have a competitive disadvantage ("selected against"). These fish are likely to die before producing a lot of progenies, and therefore the deleterious allele is relatively quickly eliminated from the population.

6. If a particular allele confers a deleterious effect on the fish carrying it, and you need two copies of this allele in the fish for this to happen ("recessive"), then the fish carrying two copies of this allele would have a competitive disadvantage. However, those carrying one copy of this deleterious allele and one copy of normal ("wild type") allele would be phenotypically normal. It is therefore very hard to eliminate this allele from a population. However, because there is still a negative selection pressure on this allele, it is maintained at a relatively low frequency in the population.

7. The "blue gene" likely fits point #6. It has a low allele frequency in the natural population, and almost exists exclusively in heterzygotes (as homozygotes die young).

8. For one to catch two wild JD and get EBJD fry out of them, both JDs must carry the blue gene. One is rare, let along both. "Blind luck" is just that.

9. As mentioned in point #1, the "blue gene" likely originated in a single individual in a particular locale, and therefore it would only exist in the gene pool there. No matter how many wild JDs you try from elsewhere, you are never going to get an EBJD.

 

[Szar]

9. As mentioned in point #1, the "blue gene" likely originated in a single individual in a particular locale, and therefore it would only exist in the gene pool there. No matter how many wild JDs you try from elsewhere, you are never going to get an EBJD.

So all that needs to be done if for Luzarado to come clean where his JD's came from so some one else could try to repeat the same feat, right.

 

[Szar]

They are $10 each at 2-4" here.

4" would go for serious cash here, 2" go for 40/50

 

[peathenster]

So all that needs to be done if for Luzarado to come clean where his JD's came from so some one else could try to repeat the same feat, right.

Or to clarify whether the fry came from two wild caught individuals (naturally occurring allele), or from two tank raised individuals (mutation could have happened during the breeding process).

It's hardly a "feat" and I don't know why it would be worth repeating.

Some basic genetics in the context of fish breeding http://theangelfishsociety.org/genetics.htm

 

[Gatorxxx420]

I have a 6.5"ish EBJD that is absolutely beautiful. He's a bit more aggressive than they typically are. He doesn't tussle with my other male Dempsey much. But when he does, he holds his own.

As for genetics, I was under the impression that it was a recessive gene that if both parent fish carried the blue gene they would be produced. I also was under the impression that since they're not as strong as their regular counterparts, this was why they didn't exist in the wild. Perhaps there is a locale that the BG is carried by regular JD's. If this is true, that would explain the occurrence. The reason a lot of these fish are deformed is due to inbreeding. Because people breed a regular JD with an EBJD then breed one of the offspring back to the EBJD. Since a regular JD rarely carries the BG, that's the only way they'll produce them. Which is irresponsible on the person trying to breed them and unfortunate for people trying to buy them. Sometimes deformities aren't caught until they're bigger. My friends didn't show beakface till it was over 4"s.

 

[stuckinthemiddle]

Let's see if we can make it simple:

1. When a gene gets passed along from generation to generation, it accumulates mutations randomly and at very low frequency. Mutations happen independently in different individual organisms. Mutation rates are usually in the ballpark of 1% change per million years. Yes, per million years.

2. As a result, in a natural population, each gene can exist in many different forms with usually (but not always) subtle differences. They are called "alleles". These alleles may or may not be functionally different.

3. For each gene, different individuals can carry different combinations of these alleles.

4. For simplicity, let's consider JDs as diploids (which is probably the case anyway). It means one fish carries two alleles of each gene. The two alleles can be the same (homozygous), or different (heterozygous).

5. If a particular allele confers a deleterious effect on the fish carrying it, and only one copy of this allele is needed in the fish for this to happen ("dominant"), all fish carrying this allele would have a competitive disadvantage ("selected against"). These fish are likely to die before producing a lot of progenies, and therefore the deleterious allele is relatively quickly eliminated from the population.

6. If a particular allele confers a deleterious effect on the fish carrying it, and you need two copies of this allele in the fish for this to happen ("recessive"), then the fish carrying two copies of this allele would have a competitive disadvantage. However, those carrying one copy of this deleterious allele and one copy of normal ("wild type") allele would be phenotypically normal. It is therefore very hard to eliminate this allele from a population. However, because there is still a negative selection pressure on this allele, it is maintained at a relatively low frequency in the population.

7. The "blue gene" likely fits point #6. It has a low allele frequency in the natural population, and almost exists exclusively in heterzygotes (as homozygotes die young).

8. For one to catch two wild JD and get EBJD fry out of them, both JDs must carry the blue gene. One is rare, let along both. "Blind luck" is just that.

9. As mentioned in point #1, the "blue gene" likely originated in a single individual in a particular locale, and therefore it would only exist in the gene pool there. No matter how many wild JDs you try from elsewhere, you are never going to get an EBJD.

You sound as if you are some sort of professor and work at a University....