How has the coronavirus affected your personal life?

Status
Not open for further replies.

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,404
3,795
179
Tennessee
So is the argument that you (and Steve Hilton, whoever that is) are trying make is that the CDC guidance recommending that children be vaccinated is wrong because, according to CDC data, hospitalization rates for children increased in March and April 2021... but were down by June?

If so, you and Steve are demonstrating that you don't know much about public health. And that the source - and interpreter - of information matters.

Here's what the CDC says about children getting vaccination: "CDC recommends everyone 12 years and older should get a COVID-19 vaccination to help protect against COVID-19. Widespread vaccination is a critical tool to help stop the pandemic. People who are fully vaccinated can resume activities that they did prior to the pandemic. Learn more about what you and your child or teen can do when you have been fully vaccinated. Children 12 years and older are able to get the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/recommendations/adolescents.html
Hello; Interesting. I thought Mr. Hilton explained him self very well. I tried in my own way. The "it" in the story is not about the wisdom of the vaccine for young people. It is about the tactic used. Claiming you should get children vaccinated because infections among the young are going up as a reason, when in fact at the time of the announcements the trend had peaked and was in fact on the way down. Does not matter that you do not get the point. What matters is that many of the rest of us do get it. I personally want those in charge to give me straight information, not to use misleading information.

Also of interest is the tactic you use which mirrors that of some others. That being you trying to down play my capacity to understand the concepts. This was tried months ago on this forum. I wrote some opinions about things which did not make sense to me. What matters is in the fullness of time my views have been vindicated. If the posts are still around any can go back to read them. let the members of this forum judge for themselves if i know much about public health.
 

Ulu

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Dec 13, 2018
1,843
3,135
164
The Sunny San Joaquin
. . . the CDC MMWR is the gold standard. . . .
Well we all know the golden rule: he with the gold makes the rules.

I’ve been a scientist all my life. I have always ascribed to the scientific method in the diagnosis of every important problem.

The problem with science, nowadays, is that it is done two ways.

One way is that selfless people are burning the midnight oil to crank out discoveries in hope of saving someone, somewhere, something. Hooorah to those guys! That is the way of civilized society.

The other way is that science is done with large injections of money, to organizations or institutions, which are attempting to advance science.

I am hoping to see more private promotion of scientific enterprise through the use of things like Kickstarter and Go fund me.

I am hoping to see less done by enormous monopolistic pharma businesses and those enterprises funded with tax dollars.

But the natural progression is that the one turns into the other, if you don’t see this you have to look at the history of Microsoft windows.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jjohnwm

dogofwar

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Jan 3, 2006
5,083
954
174
49
Maryland
www.capitalcichlids.org
That's the problem: Hilton convinced you to support bunk science, which isn't just irresponsible but dangerous.

That (national) hospitalization rates for kids decreased over a couple of months doesn't mean that vaccinating children (or adults for that matter) is no longer needed. Or that the CDC was trying to deceive the public by continuing to promote vaccination.

Remember that there is considerable variability in the rates of infection, hospitalization and variability across the country (and world), so national rates don't tell the whole story. And even if they did, vaccination is for the future and not the present. Vaccinating kids now is to prevent the spread and harm of the emerging Delta variant of COVID (and future variants), which are ravaging the UK, Indian and other places. And to safe guard against the increased transmission coming in the fall when kids and people spend more time indoors, presumably in in-person school.

But you'd know all of this if you sought information from credible sources like this: https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...nt-is-the-most-contagious-of-covid-19-strains

"The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has declared that the variant of coronavirus first detected in India is a variant of concern, meaning it poses a significant threat to those who are not vaccinated.

The Delta variant, also known as B.1.617.2, is the most contagious yet. The CDC estimates that it may be responsible for nearly 10% of all new COVID-19 infections in the United States. In some Western U.S. states, the variant may be responsible for nearly 20% of cases.

That risk has public health officials stressing the benefits of vaccines, which have been shown to be highly effective against the Delta variant. In one recent study, researchers in the U.K. found that a two-dose regimen of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 88% effective against symptomatic disease from the Delta variant.

"If you are vaccinated, you're going to be protected, which is another very good reason to encourage people strongly to get vaccinated," says Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. "If you are not vaccinated, you are at risk of getting infected with the virus that now spreads more rapidly and gives more serious disease."


Hello; Interesting. I thought Mr. Hilton explained him self very well. I tried in my own way. The "it" in the story is not about the wisdom of the vaccine for young people. It is about the tactic used. Claiming you should get children vaccinated because infections among the young are going up as a reason, when in fact at the time of the announcements the trend had peaked and was in fact on the way down. Does not matter that you do not get the point. What matters is that many of the rest of us do get it. I personally want those in charge to give me straight information, not to use misleading information.

Also of interest is the tactic you use which mirrors that of some others. That being you trying to down play my capacity to understand the concepts. This was tried months ago on this forum. I wrote some opinions about things which did not make sense to me. What matters is in the fullness of time my views have been vindicated. If the posts are still around any can go back to read them. let the members of this forum judge for themselves if i know much about public health.
 

dogofwar

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Jan 3, 2006
5,083
954
174
49
Maryland
www.capitalcichlids.org
Well, two pretty atypical scientists were behind the COVID-19 vaccines...



Inspiring stuff!

Well we all know the golden rule: he with the gold makes the rules.

I’ve been a scientist all my life. I have always ascribed to the scientific method in the diagnosis of every important problem.

The problem with science, nowadays, is that it is done two ways.

One way is that selfless people are burning the midnight oil to crank out discoveries in hope of saving someone, somewhere, something. Hooorah to those guys! That is the way of civilized society.

The other way is that science is done with large injections of money, to organizations or institutions, which are attempting to advance science.

I am hoping to see more private promotion of scientific enterprise through the use of things like Kickstarter and Go fund me.

I am hoping to see less done by enormous monopolistic pharma businesses and those enterprises funded with tax dollars.

But the natural progression is that the one turns into the other, if you don’t see this you have to look at the history of Microsoft windows.
 

skjl47

Goliath Tigerfish
MFK Member
May 16, 2011
4,404
3,795
179
Tennessee
hat's the problem: Hilton convinced you to support bunk science, which isn't just irresponsible but dangerous.
Hello; Nice try, but wrong. I do not take the word of Mr. Hilton at face value any more than some of the "experts". I figure things out for myself. What i want from the authorities is good information.

That (national) hospitalization rates for kids decreased over a couple of months doesn't mean that vaccinating children (or adults for that matter) is no longer needed. Or that the CDC was trying to deceive the public by continuing to promote vaccination.
Hello; Again you miss the point. The story was not about the merits of the vaccine. It was about fudging the data to try to convince parents to do so. I went to some trouble to look up the CDC information so I could verify Hilton's take for my self. I included the links so others could investigate for them selves if desired. Call it another "good lie" if you wish. Think that the outcome of having children vaccinated is worth whatever it may take to get the outcome, if you wish.
 

dogofwar

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Jan 3, 2006
5,083
954
174
49
Maryland
www.capitalcichlids.org
But Mr. Hilton was incorrect. The "evidence" he provided does not support his conclusions. That hospitalization rates among children decreased over a couple of months DOES NOT reduce the need for them to be vaccinated. Unless you understand that, you can "investigate" all you want. And you'll still be wrong.

Other than his mis-interpretation of the CDC data and his imagination, what evidence is there that the CDC data is either "fudged" or that there was some concerted plot by the CDC to falsify data to deceive the public?

Such falsification of data by the CDC would be a huge scandal that would result in the same kind of whistleblower activities that resulted in exposure of the efforts by the previous administration to actually interfere in the data that the CDC published: https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3589


Hello; Nice try, but wrong. I do not take the word of Mr. Hilton at face value any more than some of the "experts". I figure things out for myself. What i want from the authorities is good information.


Hello; Again you miss the point. The story was not about the merits of the vaccine. It was about fudging the data to try to convince parents to do so. I went to some trouble to look up the CDC information so I could verify Hilton's take for my self. I included the links so others could investigate for them selves if desired. Call it another "good lie" if you wish. Think that the outcome of having children vaccinated is worth whatever it may take to get the outcome, if you wish.
 

RD.

Gold Tier VIP
MFK Member
May 9, 2007
13,183
12,538
3,360
65
Northwest Canada
Part of our social contract that allows people who have been vaccinated to not wear masks is that people who haven't will wear masks. It breaks down when the people who have chosen not to get vaccinated also choose to go maskless.

That unvaccinated people not wearing a mask may not put me at risk. But it puts my kids at risk, my friend who recovered from cancer at risk and, of course, other people who didn't get vaccinated at risk. And, of course, keeps us from fully placing COVID in the rear view mirror.


Apparently this isn't an issue, for those who are only concerned about themselves.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dogofwar

RD.

Gold Tier VIP
MFK Member
May 9, 2007
13,183
12,538
3,360
65
Northwest Canada
Our CDC has funded plenty of rigorous research on this topic. Here are a couple of recent examples that summarize what we've learned over the course of the pandemic.

Long story short, from a public health perspective, masks work. They, of course, work better when people make the effort to wear a proper mask and to wear it properly. People can have opinions otherwise. But those opinions wouldn't be supported by science.
I would hope that this would now be obvious, to most intelligent individuals. Apparently not.


YES some masks work far better than others, and some barely work at all, but a proper mask in the early stages of this pandemic could have saved countless lives. And while I agree that some health/govt authorities could have possibly done a better job, and possibly been more truthful regarding masks etc early on, and with other data that's been presented along the way, a LOT of this has been a moving target for world authorities. I just thank god that these same authorities managed to oversee the creation & distribution of of not one, but several vaccines. Without those authorities, and their protocols put in place, the results would be unimaginable.


My brother is currently in stage 4, I worry about him every day. My wife is immune compromised, and a cancer survivor. I worry about her every day as well. My grandkids are all under the age of 12, I worry about how this pandemic will affect them long term. I work in health care, so I have seen my share, but far less than many that live in hot zones.

It's been a rough patch for everyone.

Ya'll stay safe.
 

dogofwar

Potamotrygon
MFK Member
Jan 3, 2006
5,083
954
174
49
Maryland
www.capitalcichlids.org
Positive thoughts for you and your family in getting through this and other health challenges.

I would hope that this would now be obvious, to most intelligent individuals. Apparently not.


YES some masks work far better than others, and some barely work at all, but a proper mask in the early stages of this pandemic could have saved countless lives. And while I agree that some health/govt authorities could have possibly done a better job, and possibly been more truthful regarding masks etc early on, and with other data that's been presented along the way, a LOT of this has been a moving target for world authorities. I just thank god that these same authorities managed to oversee the creation & distribution of of not one, but several vaccines. Without those authorities, and their protocols put in place, the results would be unimaginable.


My brother is currently in stage 4, I worry about him every day. My wife is immune compromised, and a cancer survivor. I worry about her every day as well. My grandkids are all under the age of 12, I worry about how this pandemic will affect them long term. I work in health care, so I have seen my share, but far less than many that live in hot zones.

It's been a rough patch for everyone.

Ya'll stay safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ulu and deeda
Status
Not open for further replies.
zoomed.com
hikariusa.com
aqaimports.com
Store