In want some input on my indecisive and irresponsible behavior as a fish owner!

[sandtiger]

While you make a point about the footprint, I disagree about needing 265 gallons to house those fish. The values you posted are accurate for a single fish in a tank. The larger the tank the greater the ability to control nitrate creep. My 125 has had more fish in than his at full size and as long as I changed my water weekly, the nitrate never topped 20 ppm. I still think even knowing how big the fish get that losing the firemouth and parrot will allow you to keep the other successfully as long as they get along.

There are six fish in his tank. Divide that by 125 (the number of gallons) and you get 20.8 gallons for eatch fish. He only has one fish that would work in a 20g. Would you try to keep a blackbelt, JD, RD or any of those fish in a 20g? I don't think so. Forget space, the tank would not be able to keep up with that bio-load. Please explain how keeping those fish in single specimen tanks is any different then just adding them up. Granted the nitrate will climb slower when you have more water but not when that volume of water is overstocked with large fish. They still produce just as much waste as they would in any other system.

 

[BloodThirsty]

I don't know why people always consider current size vs full grown size. I mmean why keep a fish and mess with the tank if you're not going to keep it at full size. Just my thoughts...

 

[killerfish]

you don't seem that over stocked if at all i think you could have more fish if you do good water changes but by the sound of that stocklist that tank is like a room full of dynamite as far as aggression goes

keeping alot of fish in a big tank is alot differn't then keeping one in a small tank the amount of bacteria that live and break down amounia and nitrites is much more then the amount in a small tank pluss its more water to work with you can change more water and remove more bad chemicals from the water with out shocking the fish and you won't need to do as many water changes i'd say if he did 50%-60% water changes and the wet-dry filter really is giant and is working right you could keep the fish healthy

BUT those fish arn't done growing so they will need more room so i'd get rid of the midus and parrot if your not getting a bigger tank

 

[twhittle]

There are six fish in his tank. Divide that by 125 (the number of gallons) and you get 20.8 gallons for eatch fish. He only has one fish that would work in a 20g. Would you try to keep a blackbelt, JD, RD or any of those fish in a 20g? I don't think so. Forget space, the tank would not be able to keep up with that bio-load. Please explain how keeping those fish in single specimen tanks is any different then just adding them up. Granted the nitrate will climb slower when you have more water but not when that volume of water is overstocked with large fish. They still produce just as much waste as they would in any other system.

That is a flawed way of looking at it. 120 gallons of water will dillute nitrate creep better than 55 gallons. To give an example. I had a single 11 inch oscar in a 55 gallon. I had to do a wc every 7 days as that is when my nitrates hit 20 ppm. At the same time I had 2 oscars, one 13 inches, the other 12 inches in a 90. In that tank my nitrates didn't hit 20 until 10 days. In my 125, I have around 18 gallons per fish. Obviously I would not put these fish in an 18 gallon. But in a 125 they have 6 ft to move, not 2 ft like in a 20. Bioload wise is where the issue is. IME larger amounts of water slow nitrate creep. How else do you explain my oscar tanks, or my current 125 hitting 20 ppm at 7 days with less than 20 gallons per fish when we both know that if I had a 10 inch oscar in a 20, the wc would be needed a lot faster.

 

[Steve p]

If you hit the fish in the head with the powerhead, maybe it will stun it and thus end the aggression, LOL!

 

[sandtiger]

That is a flawed way of looking at it. 120 gallons of water will dillute nitrate creep better than 55 gallons.

No, not if both tanks are stocked to or beyond their capacity. There does not exist some magic rule that you can overstock a 120g but not a 55g simply based on the size of the tank.

To give an example. I had a single 11 inch oscar in a 55 gallon. I had to do a wc every 7 days as that is when my nitrates hit 20 ppm. At the same time I had 2 oscars, one 13 inches, the other 12 inches in a 90. In that tank my nitrates didn't hit 20 until 10 days.

Are there any variables you're leaving out perhaps? Plants? Size of water changes? Different test kits? Feeding amounts and diet? I cannot explain your situation but I'm not going to support what makes no sense at all simply based on your experiance. You kept two oscars in a 90g, no matter how you cut it that is still 45g per fish.

IME larger amounts of water slow nitrate creep.

IYE perhaps but that does not make it fact and IMO worth suggesting to an individual who is overstocked regardless of his water readings based on tank size alone. You cannot prove that you can slow nitrate creep based on tank size. An oscar in a 55g, two in a 110g. It is the same, it is 55g per fish and the two together will both produce the same amount of waste that they would alone.

How else do you explain my oscar tanks, or my current 125 hitting 20 ppm at 7 days with less than 20 gallons per fish when we both know that if I had a 10 inch oscar in a 20, the wc would be needed a lot faster.

May I ask exactly what and how many fish you're keeping in your 125g? Until I know more I don't buy it.

 

[twhittle]

You misunderstood my comparison to a 55 and a 120. There is no magic to it. Larger tank=more stable environment. In a 120 you can have less gallons per fish than you could in a 55. I can prove that nitrate creep slows in larger tanks. I have experimented with it for years. Larger tanks can be stocked with less fish per gallon than smaller tanks. My experiment with the Oscars as well as my 125 has proved that. I test using API freshwater liquid. How does 25 years of my fishkeeping experience and research not make it "worth suggesting"? It is your opinion that they are overstocked. It is my opinion that they are not. Both are "worth suggesting" as that is the purpose of this board. I have recently sold some fish from my 125 and now have some growouts for my 210, but I recently had:

11 inch Jag
10 inch JD
11 inch Festae
10 inch Oscar
11 inch GT
7 inch Tex
5 inch Con

75% wc every 5-7 days, fed once a day, filtered with two ac 110's and two fluval 305's. Tanks changed when nitrates hit or get near 20 ppm.

 

[sandtiger]

You misunderstood my comparison to a 55 and a 120. There is no magic to it. Larger tank=more stable environment. In a 120 you can have less gallons per fish than you could in a 55. I can prove that nitrate creep slows in larger tanks. I have experimented with it for years. Larger tanks can be stocked with less fish per gallon than smaller tanks. My experiment with the Oscars as well as my 125 has proved that. I test using API freshwater liquid. How does 25 years of my fishkeeping experience and research not make it "worth suggesting"? It is your opinion that they are overstocked. It is my opinion that they are not. Both are "worth suggesting" as that is the purpose of this board. I have recently sold some fish from my 125 and now have some growouts for my 210, but I recently had:

11 inch Jag
10 inch JD
11 inch Festae
10 inch Oscar
11 inch GT
7 inch Tex
5 inch Con

75% wc every 5-7 days, fed once a day, filtered with two ac 110's and two fluval 305's. Tanks changed when nitrates hit or get near 20 ppm.

Explain to me how there is a difference between one oscar in a 55g or two in a 110g. You say you have experimented with it for years so you must have a conclusion on how it is possable am I correct?
I am already aware that a large body of water makes room for more error. A 100g is much more stable than a 10g in terms of temp and pH swings. That is why when beginners setup aquariums it is best to start with something large. This all makes sense but what does not make sense is your claim that a 110g can somehow have the same stocking ratio as a 55g and yet not have the same amount of waste produced. Double the gallons, double the fish does not equal less nitrates. I don't want to say you're wrong but I cannot possably see how you're right.

 

[ksfishguy]

I can't believe that I actually created a thread that has this much debate, very cool. Probably the smartest thing for me to do would be loose the Midas/RD, but right now I just can't do it. That fish is very, very cool and I love the way he/she flips out when I come near the tank. He wags his tail like a dog at feeding time!

I need to get some vent pics, there is a tube, need to find out the sex of this fish!

 

[balton777]

You misunderstood my comparison to a 55 and a 120. There is no magic to it. Larger tank=more stable environment. In a 120 you can have less gallons per fish than you could in a 55. I can prove that nitrate creep slows in larger tanks. I have experimented with it for years. Larger tanks can be stocked with less fish per gallon than smaller tanks. My experiment with the Oscars as well as my 125 has proved that. I test using API freshwater liquid. How does 25 years of my fishkeeping experience and research not make it "worth suggesting"? It is your opinion that they are overstocked. It is my opinion that they are not. Both are "worth suggesting" as that is the purpose of this board. I have recently sold some fish from my 125 and now have some growouts for my 210, but I recently had:

11 inch Jag
10 inch JD
11 inch Festae
10 inch Oscar
11 inch GT
7 inch Tex
5 inch Con

75% wc every 5-7 days, fed once a day, filtered with two ac 110's and two fluval 305's. Tanks changed when nitrates hit or get near 20 ppm.

Explain to me how there is a difference between one oscar in a 55g or two in a 110g. You say you have experimented with it for years so you must have a conclusion on how it is possable am I correct?
I am already aware that a large body of water makes room for more error. A 100g is much more stable than a 10g in terms of temp and pH swings. That is why when beginners setup aquariums it is best to start with something large. This all makes sense but what does not make sense is your claim that a 110g can somehow have the same stocking ratio as a 55g and yet not have the same amount of waste produced. Double the gallons, double the fish does not equal less nitrates. I don't want to say you're wrong but I cannot possably see how you're right.

My only explanation for that is there must be greater filtration on one tank than another.