killing asian arowanas???

[AU_Arowana-RG]

I wasn't saying anything about the Philippines breeding the Asian Aro. 'm just pointing out that there are unregistered aro farms and that they don't pass out certificates. And as I said, some people have been successful, just not a lot.

In short, certficateless arowanas are in two camps, namely those from unregistered farms or wild caught. Again, it is easier to distinguish between the two because these unregistered farms breed the fancy varieties above all else whilst wild caught is truly wild caught and would look nothing like what I am trying to describe as fancy.

Also, there are no reports from the Philippines because:

a) No one has tried yet. And anyone who might have tried hasn't released anything to the public regarding this matter.
b) There are NO CITES registered aro farms here. They only exist in Singapore, Indonesia, and Malaysia.
c) The average Filipino would not be willing to buy a group of ANY Arowana because of the insane total price it would cost.
d) The zoologists in question may each only have at most 3-5 of these fish in one lab. Most likely even in DIFFERENT TANKS.

Again, indoor facilities are one thing, but another alternative would be breeding them in the southernmost states and hawaii. Also, Japan has an Arowana farm. Though, it seems more of a general tropical fish farm, but Aros are there. And you know how much colder it is there compared to Hawaii or California.

 

[sodenoshirayuki]

how big exactly do you think hawaii is? Do you really think they could even fit just one aro farm in it? The answer is, no. Anyways, Hawaii is used as like a vacation spot, not much people want to go there to see an aro breeding farm anyways. As for california, they might be able to get a farm there. But whose going to support it? You think the government has money for this kind of stuff? They couldn't care less about giving money to help breed aros just so guys in US could get some asian aros. 30 asian aros to start with at like 10k each. You do the math. Plus water filtration, Plus lighting, plus filters, plus food. How much food do you think you're going to need to support 30 grown aros in ONE pond. Dont forget farms have more than one pond. Then you gotta wait until they form breeding pairs, which is another few years. If the aros are 300k alone, plus everything else, who do you think is going to give money to support it? No one of course. Even if the ban is lifted, they're just going to buy from malay, indo, or singapore. Either way, nothing good comes out of lifting the ban. Maybe even some bad when they start pulling aros from the wild cuz there isnt enough from farms to supply everyone with em. Never heard of a farm in japan, but if they really do, i wonder where they got the space...

 

[abortedsoul]

What I can conclude is that if everybody just followed the law, then there would be no reason to hate the government.

Are you serious? It depends on the government, and not everything that the United States government does is right. They just happen to be the people currently holding power now, either those voted in or those who have been bought or appointed by those who have been bought or voted in. The U.S. government expands its powers into the privacy of your home to the point of telling you which fish you can and cannot own. Does anyone else find this insane?

I just want to say "Shut up and go build a road, or protect me from burglers. Other than that, get out of my life and leave me and my property alone."

Asian Arowanas are sweet and all, but getting the government involved is just crazy. The problem with the Asian Aro is called a "tragedy of the commons." Same thing is happening with overfishing, and everyone is bleeting out the sheepish mantra against "greed." If property rights were applied, and not interfered with by big mamma government stomping around everywhere trying to forcefully fix everyone's problems, the market would correct itself. More breeding would be experimented with, the demand/supply would stabalize longterm, and the rest is history.

I normally wouldn't discuss government, but it is the government that is doing this. Blaming private greed is short sighted- greed has given you absolutely every building, every commodity and yes every filter and every tank that you have ever had or ever seen. Why are there phone lines? Computers? Asprin?

I don't mean to be rude, or contrary, but the source of the problem is obvious to me. I am fallable, of course, but the logical cause of this seems blindingly obvious.

Is it just me, or has anyone else bothered to read a bit of Ayn Rand in their lives?

 

[groovitudedude]

Are you serious? It depends on the government, and not everything that the United States government does is right. They just happen to be the people currently holding power now, either those voted in or those who have been bought or appointed by those who have been bought or voted in. The U.S. government expands its powers into the privacy of your home to the point of telling you which fish you can and cannot own. Does anyone else find this insane?

I just want to say "Shut up and go build a road, or protect me from burglers. Other than that, get out of my life and leave me and my property alone."

This is the exact same thinking that makes me believe in the hypocrisy of certain artists. The say they hate the police, but then if their house gets robbed, who are they going to call?

I don't want to get into the government for the sake of keeping this thread open, but if people did not import asian aros illegally, then this thread wouldn't even have a point. I didn't mean that all laws are great ideas. I just meant that if everybody followed this particular law, then the whole problem would be solved.

 

[sodenoshirayuki]

I didn't mean that all laws are great ideas. I just meant that if everybody followed this particular law, then the whole problem would be solved.

 

[abortedsoul]

This is the exact same thinking that makes me believe in the hypocrisy of certain artists. The say they hate the police, but then if their house gets robbed, who are they going to call?

I don't want to get into the government for the sake of keeping this thread open, but if people did not import asian aros illegally, then this thread wouldn't even have a point. I didn't mean that all laws are great ideas. I just meant that if everybody followed this particular law, then the whole problem would be solved.

If the law didn't exist in the first place, a sustainable solution would have already been set up by those who would want to make an absolute killing on breeding fancy arowanas, because sustainable solutions make money. I am not necessarily against government; I am against government telling us what we can and can't have in our tanks.

 

[sodenoshirayuki]

Then move to Canada lol. We're allowed pretty much everything.

 

[Dan F]

how big exactly do you think hawaii is? Do you really think they could even fit just one aro farm in it? The answer is, no. Anyways, Hawaii is used as like a vacation spot, not much people want to go there to see an aro breeding farm anyways.

How big exactly do you think Hawaii is?

It's got 6,423 square miles of land total. It's the 43rd largest state in the United States.

The Big Island of Hawaii has 4,038 square miles of land (about two and a half million acres). Only a small fraction of Hawaii is "used as a vacation spot". Parts of Hawaii are suffering from overdevelopment. The vast majority of the interior is still very rural, dominated by produce farms and cattle ranches.

 

[groovitudedude]

If the law didn't exist in the first place, a sustainable solution would have already been set up by those who would want to make an absolute killing on breeding fancy arowanas, because sustainable solutions make money. I am not necessarily against government; I am against government telling us what we can and can't have in our tanks.

There are laws on what we can have because of the types of fish. Pirahnas are illegal because we don't want them in the waterways in California. Asian aros are illegal because they are endangered. Making them legal isn't gonna make them not endangered. We already went into the arowana breeding discussion. They are illegal. If you don't like it, move.

 

[abortedsoul]

There are laws on what we can have because of the types of fish. Pirahnas are illegal because we don't want them in the waterways in California. Asian aros are illegal because they are endangered. Making them legal isn't gonna make them not endangered. We already went into the arowana breeding discussion.

You say "we"; who is the "we" you are talking about?

Making them legal would make the ornamental breeds available to aquarists, and admittedly no one has thus far come up with even one good reason why these special breeds should be forcefully, at gun point, kept out of the tanks of people willing to pay for them.

They are illegal. If you don't like it, move.

People fight and die for your freedoms every day; several of my very close friends went that route. I am advocating freedom, and you are telling me to move? What America do you live in, exactly? One of the very nice things about America is that, if you don't like something your government does, you change that government. Why not suggest voting?

Telling someone to leave is just asinine, rude, and insulting. I have bled to keep the America that you live in safe for you; try to have a little bit of respect and think before you talk to someone so thoughtlessly. Thanks.