Lost causes.

[Ruturaj]

This story is a long one, and unfortunately it isn't peppered with humour, simply because there is nothing humourous to be taken from what I'm about to write. So, make a cup of your favourite beverage and get a couple of choccy biscuits.

Anyone who you meet who's in the hobby who has the philosophy, "aquarium fish don't live long anyway, and in any case they're only fish", well you know you're onto a loser from the start as far as educating them goes.

Unfortunately this is the exact philosophy of a couple up live up the road from us. They're lifelong friends of my wife and according to her they have always had a fish tank for as long as she has been visiting their house.

The first time I was introduced to them we got talking about tank stuff, and it soon became apparent that our attitudes towards maintenance, fish care, research, all that goes with the hobby basically, were light years apart. One simple example, which will tell you immediately the level they are it, is that their maintenance consists of setting a full day aside every 2 or 3 months, and blitzing the whole tank! A full deep deep clean and scrub of everything. Yeah, I know.

When I asked if they had a fast turnover of fish the answer was an unsurprising "yes", and then the husband came out with the line, "aquarium fish don't live long anyway, and in any case they're only fish". So, you get the gist of what these two are about now. I could make this post extremely long giving example after example of their lack of fish keeping know how over the years. But I'll jump right forward to the present day, something that happened yesterday, which absolutely staggered me and just made me want to physically shake these two idiots.

I got home from work and my wife told me that her friend had rang her wanting to know if I would take some fish from her, again (I have taken rescue fish from her before), as her tank had sprung a slow leak. I purposely haven't been anywhere near their house for a few years, basically because of that first encounter with them, so I didn't know what to expect, what fish she had or anything.

I went up with a bucket and net. The tank with the leak was around the 55g mark. In the corner, already set up was a tiny brand new 10g tank. She said she wanted me to take the four biggest fish and the small ones could go in her new 10g. The four bigger fish she spoke about were 2 Bala sharks (about 4-5"), a pictus cat (about 6"), and a yo-yo loach (about 3"). I netted the fish out, put them in my bucket, netted her small fish out too for her 10g (tetras and neons and a couple of 1" plecos), I know I know, what can you do, I wasn't about to try and educate her about plecos, I just wanted to get the hell out of there.

I got home and then this is where the real sad part starts kicking in. I got my test kit out to test the water in the bucket, which was from her 55g. We know that the nitrate test is a 5 minute test. I kid you not, the colour of the water hit deep burgundy in less than 30 seconds, so that's a bare minimum of 160ppm. I shuddered at the thought of what the true nitrate reading was on her water. Over the next hour I slowly diluted the "soup" in the bucket with fresh treated and temperature correct clean water. I tested along the way and still, all I was getting was burgundy on the colour chart. It wasn't until my 5th or 6th partial water change in the bucket that I got a lower reading of red (typically 40-80ppm).

In short, her nitrate reading from her 55g must have been in the many many hundreds ppm. It sickened me to the core.

I ranted at my poor missus about her stupid friends but all she said was, "don't rant at me, get on your forum and vent your steam" lol. So here I am, not that it makes me feel any better.

Why do people like this, in this day and age of computers and research still exist in the hobby? There are simply no excuses for it.

Rant over!

Sadly, I have seen and heard this multiple times as well. Mainly with Bettas and not larger tanks. This is completely animal cruelty.

 

[Ruturaj]

Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t that common In India? There aren’t as many resources over there which result in smaller tanks right? Still ridiculous but it’s somewhat understandable

The LFS owners suck mostly. Many won't tell you when you are overcrowding, they won't tell you about compatibility, temperature requirements, nutritional needs, or even nitrogen cycle.

I used to do full wipe when I was a kid. I didn't have internet till I was in twenties.

 

[Ruturaj]

Countless millions of tropical fish die every day, for the sake of our hobby.

Sadly true.

Great to see you back.

 

[Ogertron3000]

I had a lost cause of a friend like this. Went from someone without a tank to the most knowledgeable expert in the history of fish keeping ever as soon as he came home with an empty 2 foot tank, a filter, heater, bag of gravel and 3 bags of fish.
I was concerned as I watched him set it up by emptying the gravel into the tank and sticking the garden hose through the window to fills it up. When he plunged the heater in then dropped the fish in I saw angels, African cichlids, Bala and red tail sharks a bumbles catfish and 2 or 3 of several types of tetras because “you need to keep them in groups”
I knew they were all doomed and he wouldn’t listen to me about anything but enjoyed telling me I had no idea and believed the guy at the LFS who was selling him replacement fish as his original stock died was the king.
Apparently water changes weren’t necessary as he had a filter.
Around 3 months later I got the call “do you want to buy my fish tank?”, I didn’t but adopted the few surviving fish (including the original bumblebee cat which somehow survived)and wondered how much money he had spent and how many fish had died all because of bad advice, impatience and stubbornness.

 

[jjohnwm]

I think that many non hobbyists have the problem that they view fish and aquariums as decor not living things. Sure its great to have a display tank many off us do! but people need to keep in mind that they are living things not just decor

This ^ hits the nail on the head. Even the term "ornamental fish" implies that these living creatures are simply too low on the scale to be given the least bit of compassion or respect; they are, after all, merely ornaments. Combine this with stupid people who can manage to learn absolutely nothing about aquarium maintenance after keeping a tank for years, and you have a recipe for disaster. The best one can hope for is that they give up quickly and move onto something more suited to their abilities and level of passion...paint-by-number, perhaps? Hopefully something that does not involve torturing living things to death.

I don't "love" my fish in the same way I feel about my dog...there's that "mammal bias" shining through...and the loss of a fish doesn't hurt me as it seems to hurt some others. That just does not make sense to me; following that to its logical conclusion would mean that mosquitoes, cockroaches, disease-causing bacteria and other nasties were not to be killed. I'm no Buddhist. When a living thing that I brought into my house and which is entirely dependent upon me dies, I have somehow managed to fail. No excuses, no "buts", no "shoulda, woulda, coulda". It means I messed up. Happens less often as time passes, but it happens; must always strive to do better.

 

[FINWIN]

This ^ hits the nail on the head. Even the term "ornamental fish" implies that these living creatures are simply too low on the scale to be given the least bit of compassion or respect; they are, after all, merely ornaments. Combine this with stupid people who can manage to learn absolutely nothing about aquarium maintenance after keeping a tank for years, and you have a recipe for disaster. The best one can hope for is that they give up quickly and move onto something more suited to their abilities and level of passion...paint-by-number, perhaps? Hopefully something that does not involve torturing living things to death.

I don't "love" my fish in the same way I feel about my dog...there's that "mammal bias" shining through...and the loss of a fish doesn't hurt me as it seems to hurt some others. That just does not make sense to me; following that to its logical conclusion would mean that mosquitoes, cockroaches, disease-causing bacteria and other nasties were not to be killed. I'm no Buddhist. When a living thing that I brought into my house and which is entirely dependent upon me dies, I have somehow managed to fail. No excuses, no "buts", no "shoulda, woulda, coulda". It means I messed up. Happens less often as time passes, but it happens; must always strive to do better.

Some of it may be cultural too...in the US any stupid thing dogs do is a big deal...they're in commercials when its irrelevant, and the most boring behaviors get a million clicks and 'likes' on the internet (like the video of a dog eating out of its dish. Really????) But go overseas and dogs are eaten like chicken. People here would fall over and clutch their pearls. We eat cows here with no thought, but again in some cultures they're sacred.

I'm saying this, and I love dogs. Mosquitos and flies not so much. The industry has things like 'fish coffee tables and end tables' that reinforce the ornamental object thinking. Remember the thread on stupid tanks?

 

[Rtc/tsn]

My mom is on the edge of being a lost cause, the 40g I gave to her she put 2 full grown albino clawed frogs, 1 red devil, 2 black skirt tetras, rope fish ( the rope fish is mine and I’ve been trying to tell her that it needs a new, better home but she won’t let me sell it) and a Siamese algae eater. There’s a 29g that’s laying around that I’m really wanting to set up for her but for some reason it doesn’t fit underneath the stand that was made for it. She always complains about how ugly her tank is and that mine is so beautiful and everytime I tell her it’s because her tank is overstocked and that she needs to either rehome some fish, set up the 29g, get smaller fish or not have any fish at all, she just says something along the lines of “oh no my tank is beautiful they’re all doing perfect in there” I did an ammonia test the other day (5 minutes test) and it immediately turned to a dark green color. I’m doing another test in a minute after I post this reply and if it’s not perfect then I’m doing something about the tank with or without her permission. The fish don’t deserve to be in that small tank.

 

[esoxlucius]

My mom is on the edge of being a lost cause,

Command the situation boy, take the bull by the horns. Give your mum the bollocking she deserves to put her on the correct path!

Looks like it's bed early for you tonight, with no supper, lol.

 

[Rtc/tsn]

Command the situation boy, take the bull by the horns. Give your mum the bollocking she deserves to put her on the correct path!

Looks like it's bed early for you tonight, with no supper, lol.

I’ll be home the rest of the day, I’m going to clean off the kitchen table because no one ever uses it and set up the 29 on there. I’m doing it when she isn’t home so yea, not planning on eating tonight and being grounded for a while but let’s be real, if she refuses to set a tank up, she’ll refuse to take it down as long as it’s in a spot that it won’t disturb anyone at.

 

[Deadeye]

I was once a lost cause. I would intentionally, grossly overstock tanks, wait for the water level to drop a few inches, and finally clean the tank after a few months later. Repeat. And I dreaded water change day.
This lasted a while.
The worst part was, I was actually attached to the fish and cared and got upset when they died (until I got so numb to it).
I’m so glad I joined this forum and started saltwater. Saltwater because it teaches you that any mistake can immediately kill a system, so you have to stay on top of things. And here, because after seeing what really is required to keep these fish, I stepped up my game. Now I actually do regular maintenance. More so, I actually enjoy water changes (maybe it’s like a Stockholm syndrome sort of way, where I do it so much that I enjoy it). And I don’t even do them as frequently as all of you. Every 2 weeks at 80-90%, occasionally more if something is up.
Early on this forum, I wondered why my jd wasn’t growing. Over a year, he only got to 2-3 inches, I got him at 0.5. After a few months of fixing my errors, he has started growing rapidly. He now is doing the typical dempsey 0.5 inches a month with occasional larger spurts. Still a slow growing cichlid, but an improvement over half an inch per 3 months.

I guess the point is that eventually some people learn. I just wish more people did. It sucks that those people give the hobby a bad name. I’m happy that my lfs is a good one too, that doesn’t tell people to destroy their tanks for a profit (as far as I’ve noticed).
Shout out to Rtc/tsn as well! I totally thought you were a lost cause a few short weeks ago, but you have shown how much you care and I’m sure you will become a great fishkeeper (or aquateer as The Masked Shadow likes to say).