Lost causes.

[Rtc/tsn]

I was once a lost cause. I would intentionally, grossly overstock tanks, wait for the water level to drop a few inches, and finally clean the tank after a few months later. Repeat. And I dreaded water change day.
This lasted a while.
The worst part was, I was actually attached to the fish and cared and got upset when they died (until I got so numb to it).
I’m so glad I joined this forum and started saltwater. Saltwater because it teaches you that any mistake can immediately kill a system, so you have to stay on top of things. And here, because after seeing what really is required to keep these fish, I stepped up my game. Now I actually do regular maintenance. More so, I actually enjoy water changes (maybe it’s like a Stockholm syndrome sort of way, where I do it so much that I enjoy it). And I don’t even do them as frequently as all of you. Every 2 weeks at 80-90%, occasionally more if something is up.
Early on this forum, I wondered why my jd wasn’t growing. Over a year, he only got to 2-3 inches, I got him at 0.5. After a few months of fixing my errors, he has started growing rapidly. He now is doing the typical dempsey 0.5 inches a month with occasional larger spurts. Still a slow growing cichlid, but an improvement over half an inch per 3 months.

I guess the point is that eventually some people learn. I just wish more people did. It sucks that those people give the hobby a bad name. I’m happy that my lfs is a good one too, that doesn’t tell people to destroy their tanks for a profit (as far as I’ve noticed).
Shout out to Rtc/tsn as well! I totally thought you were a lost cause a few short weeks ago, but you have shown how much you care and I’m sure you will become a great fishkeeper (or aquateer as The Masked Shadow likes to say).

When I first started keeping fish months before I joined mfk, I had a 30 gallon hexagon tank. The stock was 3 koi, blackbelt cichlid ( the same one I recently rehomed) and an Asian redtail catfish. Asian rtc seem to have became rare in my area and sadly after I gave mine to a friends friend in a 500g he shortly passed. At that point in my time in hobby I would do a one a month every 3 months breakdown of the tank and deep clean. Soon later an incident happened that put me in a hospital and psych ward ( I can look up Google photos of the place and tell you the exact room I was in for a week) and when I finally got home I realized my fish have gotten so much bigger than before so I bought a 40 gallon tank with birthday money that I ended up overstocking like crazy, a month or two after having my 40 gallon I decided that since I’ve been a lurker of this forum for a year almost 2 years that it was time to make an account and join the forum, I instantly regretted it when I started being told that my tank is overstocked and the fish are going to die soon, there were many times when I wanted to stay away from mfk but I couldn’t help but always check on what people had to say and so I stayed around and for a while I made excuses like “I’m trying to rehome my fish” or “yea I have a friend I can give one fish too” and soon i because In too deep. When my rtc passed I decided it was actually time to something and so I started actually trying to make my tank better but I had no way of doing it until I got the help of Kolton13 when he found a fish store near me that would take all my fish, a couple days later I siphon some water into a big plastic tote and slowly add all my fish into it and put it in the back of the car ( the thing was freaking heavy) an hour and a half drive later we get there and the second the guy took the tote into the back room I was ready to cry because I was attached to my fish but I knew it’s what was best, that same day while I was still ignorant I decided to spend all my store credit on a blue whale catfish and new heater, blue whale was fun while it lasted but I should’ve waited to add anything to my tank. Meanwhile the entire time i had a plastic tote on my bed with a 1 inch flowerhorn, That flowerhorn has grown to become the flowerhorn that everyone today knows as “Daisy”. I added daisy to my 40g after waiting a bit for the water quality to get better and for some reason I decided to buy a red devil, I later sold the red devil ( my mom bought it back without me knowing) but put the fish in her 40g. Fast forward a while, I find a tank on fb marketplace, 55 gallons really cheap, I buy it and I was too excited to wait and that quickly backfired, it sprung a leak, I did everything possible to fix the leak and actually took apart the entire thing panel by panel, spent days cleaning old silicone and did my best to reseal it, it spring a leak also but while getting ready to prepare the Inside for a reseal my mom called and she was at the pet store with my grandma who said If I throw the tank away that she’ll buy me a brand new 55g and so I did obviously. Quickly set it up and put daisy in it and now I’m where I am today.
( a couple parts of the story may not be in order but honestly I don’t have it in me to reread it all and correct it lol) thank you Deadeye Kolton13 Bbuckley The Masked Shadow and many others for helping me every step of the way. The community on mfk is truly amazing and without you all, I’d be a lost cause today and possibly not even own fish.

 

[Andyroo]

I quite dislike vegitarians, as they claim a moral superiority by "only" consuming eggs, cheese & fish.
So I ask how that's preferable and they give their stock answers, and then set into the factual tales of problem solving cichlids, "play" in loaches, arowana & mormyrids, tool use tusk-fish, pain & anxiety in trout, etc etc etc. Then we talk about abject cruelty in factory dairy & battery egg production, when all hell breaks loose: "Everything has some dogooder champion, what am I supposed to eat?" To which I point out their moral foundation of their choices, and that it's bunk. I then suggest they do as they do, but OWN IT (you hypocritical, cowardly, lazy, ignorant nitwit &#@##!!) like a Gah'Dam grown-up.

From there, once the "This is me" baseline is established, then minimize your footprint ad-hoc, starting with the how you choose or source your foods & how you treat your pets, including wildlife. "Know thy farmer" is always a nice place to start, particularly re pork & beef.

For me, for example (and not to be preachy), I abhor the idea of bow-hunting, particularly for trophy, but I'm an avid fly-fisherman incl C&R - glass houses, pot&kettle etc., as both are based in cruelty under the guise of sport, a respectful Heminway'esque contest - bollux. A sport is an activity agreed between the participants - I've not asked the bass, but doubt he's onboard. So I own it: I use gear that's a little bigger than normal & don't doddle in the fight. Once breakfast is quickly dispatched & in the basket, I swap the fly for something stupid that's unlikely to catch but keeps me on the water. My brother hunts, using the biggest rifle the BC Govt will allow, won't take a less-than perfect shot of more than 30yards and, if there's a choice, takes the smaller buck so'z to minimize his impact on the genetics.

So, to sum-up: In these conversations don't be afraid of emotive-combative words like cruel, torture and responsible/irresponsible. They may get you thrown out of the party (and maybe the marital chamber) but they leave everybody thinking, mulling, to come to a properly considered & even ongoing evolving conclusion. Pulling-punches to be socially acceptable helps exactly nobody in the long-term - just ask anybody who's been working in climate or fisheries for the last 50years. Be responsible to your (grand)children, only and holistically.

 

[Andyroo]

and sociopath!!! That really get's 'em riled as it's a nasty way to describe somebody in company. Be sure to look it up & be comfortable with the definition before you throw it around, as it's complicated vs psychopath and other similar terms/conditions. Me, I avoid it as I'm a snob & afraid of getting caught in misuse

 

[SalviniCichlidFan]

You know the people y'all are talking about aren't the worst. This is a classical conversion I have with people I know (y'all DEFINITLEY can relate):
Me: "Hey have you kept fish before."
Other: "yes I've kept fish before but they all died in a week"
Me: "why, what happened"
Other: "I bought a couple comet goldfish and put them into a bowl."
Me: "that's it? no dechlorinator, water changes, cycling, filter, or heater? "
Other: "what the heck are you talking about?"
Me: *facepalms

 

[Rtc/tsn]

You know the people y'all are talking about aren't the worst. This is a classical conversion I have with people I know (y'all DEFINITLEY can relate):
Me: "Hey have you kept fish before."
Other: "yes I've kept fish before but they all died in a week"
Me: "why, what happened"
Other: "I bought a couple comet goldfish and put them into a bowl."
Me: "that's it? no dechlorinator, water changes, cycling, filter, or heater? "
Other: "what the heck are you talking about?"
Me: *facepalms

How do you ever do a wc in a fish bowl? Two scoops with a plastic cup

 

[Andyroo]

Soon after Uni, a buddy got a tiny little apartment and was well-meaningly given a gorgeous male betta in a mason jar as housewarming. Somebody suggested he add a pothos slip, and that fish thrived in upgraded jars on his coffee table for a good three years - outliving several (human) relationships. Husbandry investment was minimal, adequate & appropriate and ROI in reciprocal(?) companionship was immeasurable through those broke&lonely career-building years, IE there's not much excuse. To quote the hyper-wise: "Do, or do not. There is no try"

 

[Deadeye]

How do you ever do a wc in a fish bowl? Two scoops with a plastic cup

Yep, or it’s so small you just do 100%. For some reason it’s harder than big tanks (I’m not joking either).

 

[Rtc/tsn]

Yep, or it’s so small you just do 100%. For some reason it’s harder than big tanks (I’m not joking either).

It makes no sense either, fish bowls I see are like 2-5g, what are you going to put in there, a single guppy? I actually just thought of something that ok probably annoy my mom with for the next month with ? what about those shell dwelling cichlids that stay like 1” (I think) and have a 5-10g bowl with sand and shells with a group of those guys.

 

[SalviniCichlidFan]

If you study chemistry then you will know that the larger the body of water, the harder it is to have sudden changes in parameters.

 

[Deadeye]

If you study chemistry then you will know that the larger the body of water, the harder it is to have sudden changes in parameters.

Very true

It makes no sense either, fish bowls I see are like 2-5g, what are you going to put in there, a single guppy? I actually just thought of something that ok probably annoy my mom with for the next month with ? what about those shell dwelling cichlids that stay like 1” (I think) and have a 5-10g bowl with sand and shells with a group of those guys.

Betta is the usual go to. They can do well in bowls as long as it is actually taken care of.
Shellies need at least 10, just for a properly sized colony.