Now you guys got me wondering. I just recently picked up 3 f0 festae collected from Ecuador. They come from a very reputable vendor up here in Canada. Now my question is there any marked difference between the wild caught and a f1 or f2 generation. I know with the labiatus there is the size of the lips.
LOTS of wild caughts these days, hmm...
- Thread starter John Rambo
- Start date
use caviar as a example you have the good caviar and the bad caviar but caviar is caviar
I would think that the prevalence of wild caught species has to do with the ease of transport in this day and age and the smarts of the fish keepers actually stepping in and making their hobby a business by going on collecting trips. I know I have had a few changes to go out of country to go collecting.
Yet as well there are those who hand their fish with a shovel considering the bs.
Best make sure of your sources
I would think that the prevalence of wild caught species has to do with the ease of transport in this day and age and the smarts of the fish keepers actually stepping in and making their hobby a business by going on collecting trips. I know I have had a few changes to go out of country to go collecting.
Yet as well there are those who hand their fish with a shovel considering the bs.
Best make sure of your sources
Thanks, but I don't eat caviar. I know wild caught is supposed to be better. I have a festae that is supposed to be wild, but I don't really know what the difference is. Does it mean the fish will look all that different than one born in a tank? It's the first one I've ever owned, so I wouldn't even know.
dent20;3156421; said:
Bottom line is that unless you removed it from the water yourself, or bought it from a trusted dealer you wouldn't know 100% by physically looking at the fish. There are a few habits that I have personally observed that "might" be an indication.
Initial spawn from wild fish have a tendency to be larger. Of course you need to be able to compare what "large" may be. I have tanks with Managuense that I brought back from collecting trips and tanks with fish that I have raised F1/F2. They generally have smaller batches of fry. I would imagine that the difference is that the mortality rate of fish in the wild, being higher, they would produce more fry. In a tank after successive generations, they adapt by producing less. Just an observation. The same F0 fish after several years start to produce less fry.
Another thing that I believe is that pair bonding in regards to aggression is much stronger with wild fish. I have a tank with F0 Managuense and another with F0 Motaguense...neither have ever had a divider. Even after years...I haven'e had any "incidents". Other tanks with F1 fish, dividers up 24/7. Coincidence? Open water "hard wires" more "respect"? Who knows....my two cents.
As to physical characteristics, It's nearly impossible. Fish like the thick lipped Labiatus will, over generation in fish tanks, slowly get a "lip reduction". My F0 parachromis fish appear to have larger...more predominant teeth. The size and color between F0 & F1 is virtually imossible to tell. After many generations, certain physical differences do become apparent IMHO.
The Umbee is a classic example. Most of the Umbee in home aquaria were born and raised in fish tanks across the country. The lack of "fresh blood" into the species has resulted in a smaller...less sturdy (health) fish. I've met very few that haven't had eventual problems with adult Umbee. After years of interbreeding with distant cousins...the fish start to break down.
My guess would be that the majority of fish that are being sold as wild...are either totally blowing smoke...or they are "wild caught" from a breeders pond. I just read a story the other day in an Archaeology magazine talking about the rash of items being sold to unsuspecting buyers as genuine artifacts. Some of them actually are manufactured so well that they are fooling the experts. Why is it being done? No shocker here...$$$$$$$$
Buyer beware. If you buy a wild fish, know the dealer, ask for the provinence, details. If you are getting a wild fish that is an inch or two...juvenile...I would be suspect.
Mo
Mo's right on. The wild Festaes are in season now and there is a viable commercial collecting in Equador. Most wild caught S. American fish are wild caught, most of the countries down there have viable commercial collecting systems set up. The problem is the multitude of people who suddenly have wild caught Centrals, As far as I know there is one commerical collecting outfit on Lago Nicaragua and that is it. Unless you know the person who went down to anywhere else south of the US border and personnally collected the fish then most likely it's BS and the seller is lying. There are no collectors in Mexico, Belize, Guatamala, Honduras, El Salvador, Panama or Costa Rica, so any fish from any of those countries that are" wild caught" are not. The RTM people are selling are pond raised in Florida, No one has a wild La Ceiba Parachromis for sell. None of us who have them would let them go, most likely with the recent pollution of the collecting site will any more wild be caught so we are keeping them. Buyer beware, it's just a way for these guys to get more money, example, the recent thread where I asked a guy who caught the fish and he couldn't answer. I can tell you exactly where any wild fish I sell was caught at, by whom and when. Jeff Rapps can also. Ken
As stated above, it's best to only trust reputable dealers and breeders.
I saw some Herichthys sp "turquoise" being sold on aquabid as F1 a few years ago. Now the funny thing is I found out who they got their breeders from and I actually had the pair that spawned their breeders. The pair I had was F3 at best and the seller's fry was 2 generations removed from mine.
I saw some Herichthys sp "turquoise" being sold on aquabid as F1 a few years ago. Now the funny thing is I found out who they got their breeders from and I actually had the pair that spawned their breeders. The pair I had was F3 at best and the seller's fry was 2 generations removed from mine.
I recently got a pair of F0 Festae and I believe them to be truly F0. I've worked with Festae enough to tell the difference having had large pairs of wilds and F..whatever. But yes, there are plenty of scammers out there.
