More still borns. What am I doing wrong?

  • We are currently upgrading MFK. thanks! -neo
looks like you've ruled out the stress from other fish then. it seems that its eaither something your not testing for or something thats returned back to normal when you do test.
is it possible to turn the drip off and leave it to your filters if the drip is where you think the problem is ?

your talking about getting rid of alot of stock to try fix the issues but if you have already have a successfull tank for reference and have moved females to another tank that runs off the same larger system why dont you just make that third tank/system independant using a duplicate of the successfull tanks filtration ? hopefully no further problems and then you can just move the adults back to the main tank after the pups are born leaving the pups undisturbed and you can keep the main tank as it is.
 
Back when I had luck breeding my most reliable mm had still born a few times. Not sure if it had any thing to due with water or stress. She has been left alone and still had this happen.
 
Guess I'll get an Apex and put a bullet in the Ammonia hunch.......

Let me put it this way...... IF you custom built an engine for the car of your dreams, and it ran poorly, would you just drive another car or would you want to know what was wrong with the engine you spent so much time and money building????? When you make a living repairing things you don't just settle for broken.

Anyone that has a TDS/conductivity meter and has dabbled in ageing/degassing water knows numbers change quite a bit. I'm wondering if the answers I'm looking for don't revolve around this?
 
I re-skimmed this, for forgive me if it's been answered already....

Biologically, are the still borns linked together? As in, are the litters with problems the same parents every time or one of the same parent?
 
Zoodiver said:
I re-skimmed this, for forgive me if it's been answered already....

Biologically, are the still borns linked together? As in, are the litters with problems the same parents every time or one of the same parent?
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Thanks for taking the time to reply Matt. I appreciate it.

The rays that both had still borns are sisters. They were CB by me several years ago. I recently reaquired them and upon arriving back home both were impregnated by the same male - Larry. Larry has fathered 3 healthy pups here earlier this year from 2 different mothers (both 1st time mothers). Up to this point I've never lost any of his pups.


This is the very first litter for both these females. They've actually never even been housed with males prior to being brought home.

The more I think about it the more I think the term still born is probably misleading. The firstborn pup lived 3 days in the tank with the 2 females. Mom still appeared fat so figured I'd just wait and move all pups together. After day 3 and the new pup still refusing to eat I decided to move the pup to the pup tank (independent 60 gallon) I lost the pup shortly after. (within 12 hours) no issues at all with the 3 pups that reside in the pup tank. The female that gave birth was removed the following week. 3 weeks pass and the other female gives birth to a pup that looked like a reverse suction cup when I found it (very curled, but healthy looking otherwise) the curling leads me to believe it was born alive and then passed, as still borns in the past have never been curled. Not sure if this is just a silly assumption or if I'm on the right track, regardless the pup died within 24 hours of being born.
 
DB junkie said:
Let me put it this way...... IF you custom built an engine for the car of your dreams, and it ran poorly, would you just drive another car or would you want to know what was wrong with the engine you spent so much time and money building????? When you make a living repairing things you don't just settle for broken.
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perhaps your looking at this the wrong way then.
you design an engine for a bus and it works great.
you stick that engine in a mini and you struggle to get round corners in one peice.

what you have works well for what it was designed for. maybe you need to worry less about it working for everything (i.e.would you downgrade the bus engine so that you could drive the mini properly at the expense of the usability of the bus or would you design a different system for the mini and have both working well ?).

you have been successful and know how to be successful with both your large and independant systems but you seem to be more concerned about the large filtration system than the pups that are dying because of it.

your lucky that you are able to produce pups and you know how to keep them alive as well so well done for that.
i guess its up to you what system you keep the pups on but its a no brainer to me.

good luck buddy i hope you work it out if you continue to keep pups on the big system (perhaps you could just use one pup at a time as a guinea pig rather than a full litter if thats how you want to do it) and i hope it eventually helps us all with the results of your findings as im sure it will be very useful information.

just to add so it doesnt sound like im putting you down. ive tried different filtration systems myself and ive built my own reactors and filters in the past. ive unfortunately lost my fair share of rays too im sad to say.
good luck and i do wish you and your fish well.
 
Are they leaving the water when you transfer tanks?

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scott s said:
Maybe the shock of going from one system to another was too much for the pup?
Possible the other pup was harassed before you found it?
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100% agree, I think the conductivity #s reflect this. I bought the conductivity meter to verify tanks are similar before moving stuff. Not checking this before moving the pup was a huge mistake on my part. :irked: I don't know how much of a difference it takes before its an issue. I'm sure much less for newborns then established rays.

Doubt the other ray would have been harassed by it's mom.
 
Dieselhybrid said:
Are they leaving the water when you transfer tanks?

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Yes. Smaller ones get netted then dropped in a tub on the way to a different tank. Larger ones are just carried in the net. I wouldn't think they're ever out of the water more then like 5 seconds or so...
 
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