My LFS Got Busted?!?!

[Acer]

Life is full of one species taking over anothers territory. Look at us humans. Not to mention past life. It is how we got our species today. One could argue that it is just evolution and not evil. We forget we are part of nature too. Don't get me wrong I am not pro releasing fish, I am just saying species taking over and breeding with others has been happening since the dawn of time. So your so called natives are the result of hybridizing and species being taken over.

Lindsey

Yeah, but species migration and hybridization is typically considered to be a gradual process. The ecosystems we see right now are by no means static, but the reason why they are relatively stable is because of co-evolution and species associations that have occurred over a long period of time.

That is why native organisms and their respective diseases typically aren't that detrimental to the population as a whole - if some fish disease was highly virulent and lethal, chances are it wouldn't be around for too long, because the host would be wiped out... and we wouldn't see them occuring right now. But if you add an invasive disease into the equation, it is doing what comes naturally, and can wipe out the host that it wasn't originally associated with.

If you throw in a foreign organism from another part of the world and it manages to survive and reproduce, the changes to the dynamics can be huge. We consider those changes negative because we like our native species and the way our ecosystem functions... a perpetual cycle that provides us with food, water, shelter, health, and an economy is pretty nice, and worth protecting

The problem is when a native species gets pushed out by an invasive one, it's role in the ecosystem may not be fulfilled.

 

[itzacraze]

what is with the illeagle fish popularity..... if pirahna were legal i bet demand wouldnt be nearly as high.... snaping turtles ... what could be uglier and less personable in the turtle world.... snakeheads wow theyre still in the tank untill u throw something in.... what is with people why cant we all stick to fish that are legal and keep fishkeeping out of jail.... i agree its stupid to have certain laws here in ny we cant have a turtle under 4 inches.... but we can have anacondas with a permit

 

[FireMedic]

Kudos to you Acer. Thanks for the back-up Brother.
All-in-all, illegal is illegal for a reason.
We have the ability to pursue legislation through interest groups and lobbying. Through these channels you can change the laws. Until then, illegal is illegal. If you are keeping illegally, you are not my Brother-in-MFK.
Respectfully, FireMedic.

 

[USMCtanker]

wow crazy just read all that, i know when i live in so cal, every lfs i went to seemed to have spotted gars. and after i got some i was told that gars where not alowed, but i kept them any way bc i figured there has gotta be a loop whole where these ones are legal bc there every where, i have been told that the florida/spotted gar are legal in ca but i never seen the paper work that stats they are. i have seen the paper work that say all gars specied illigal. oh and there was some gars that def where not spotted gars lol but there where labled that and didnt have a price bc you gotta ask lol

 

[dreamandscheme]

if you have some spare time read the illegal fish list for California, it lists cichlids, minnows as well as a few others you wouldn't expect.

 

[SemperFish]

I like how everyone starts crying about their rights and civil liberties and freedom when it comes to their illegal fish, or their marijuana, or their guns. Feel free to move somewhere that doesnt regulate what kind of fish you keep, but oh yeah, you cant vote. Yes our fascist government wont let you keep those pirahna, so start a protest! But when Darfour shows up on TV just change the channel.
One of the greatest things that everyone can do to preserve our freedom is follow the law of the land - regardless of wether you believe in it or not. If you strongly disagree and act on it, then dont whine and cry when youre busted.

 

[---XR---]

if you have some spare time read the illegal fish list for California, it lists cichlids, minnows as well as a few others you wouldn't expect.

the cichlids-

O) Family Cichlidae - Cichlids

1. Tilapia sparrmani (Banded Tilapia) (D).

2. Tilapia zilli (Redbelly tilapia) (D), except permits may be issued to a person or agency for importation, transportation, or possession in the counties of San Bernardino, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Diego, and Imperial.

3. Tilapia aurea (Blue tilapia) (D).

4. Tilapia nilotica (Nile tilapia) (D).

note this guys_:

restricted species are not just because of possiblility of hazard to other wildlife if released into the wild, fish are also restricted if they are threatend or are an endangered species...

 

[serpentara]

Ignorance is not an excuse.

Actually this is not true. Not trying to be a jerk but I have a Crim Law final in 2 weeks so this is great review for me.

If you are lying then obviously you are not ignorant, lying does not get you off.

In general ignorance of the law is not an excuse (mistake of law). However there is one caveat that if the statute states that knowledge of the law is a requirement for its enforcement, then ignorance of the law will excuse your behavior.

However, ignorance of one of the attendant circumstances (mistake of fact) is very often an excuse. In the common law an honest and reasonable mistake will excuse you from a general intent crime. In the common law, an honest but unreasonable mistake will excuse you from a specific intent crime.

The Model Penal Code is slightly different. Here honest and reasonable mistakes about the attendant circumstances of a crime (mistake of fact) negates the necessary mens rea for Purpose, Knowledge, Recklessness or Negligence. An honest and unreasonable mistake of fact will negate for Purpose, Knowledge, and Recklessness. It does not negate negligence.

There are also an entire class of crimes known as strict liability crimes, these tend to be for public welfare. Strict liability crimes, no matter how much you have researched, how careful you have been it does not matter, you commit the act and you are done. Statutory rape is an example of a strict liability crime. You can see a girl in a bar who is drinking, ask her age (she says 21), check her drivers license (it says 21), but if you sleep with her and she is under the age of consent, it does not matter, you are guilty of the crime of statutory rape. These tend to be few and far between thankfully.

So assuming you knew little about fish, if you see a fish labeled a Pacu, and you don't know what to look for at that size to differentiate it from a Pirhana, you probably have an honest and reasonable mistake of fact.

If you see a fish labeled a piranha, but honestly believe it is not a piranha for any reason... its not banging on the glass, its yellow or black instead of red, it doesn't have big nasty teeth. This is most likely an honest and unreasonable mistake of fact.

But I am not yet a lawyer and cannot give legal advise.

 

[Zoodiver]

That all makes sense. But, as someone who has been involved with things like this going to trial, it doesn't hold up in court.

I'd prefer to see MFKer's stay clean and clear.

 

[serpentara]

For sure, better to be safe than sorry.

You still have to convince the judge/jury of your mistake of fact, there is nothing that says they have to believe you.