Official Off Topic Discussion Thread #1

[predatorkeeper87]

Hello; These were the reasons I did not use the "report" feature in the past. I can go toe to toe with most anyone in an argument ( I have been married twice) and can handle most ant sort of language ( my father was a Marine).

The moderator told us to report these things and this troll is not worth losing the thread over. I can live with being a rat under these conditions. There are a lot of things I would say to the troll if it were not for the rules of the forum. He on the other hand takes advantage of such restraint. If the mods will allow a truly open discussion, then I will have some choice comments for the troll.

Though I'm not a mod and don't speak for them I feel as though all participants minus 1 have been completely civil in the matter, and as such a resulting ban or at the very least a good warning should occur for that 1 individual. That's just my thoughts though haha. The discussion needs all view points I feel, but in a civil manner, no goofy name calling for absolutely no reason.

 

[nzafi]

No one once said they shouldn't be allowed here because of where they come from. I have Mexican, Brazilian, Asian and African friends. They came here legally, they did the time to come here and live. Sucks they drew a hand that didn't get them born here, but those of us that did shouldn't have to turn a blind eye to them coming here illegally. They all got here, don't give me that bull-ish about it being complicated...I have at least 12 points of proof that its faster than you think. Hey and if these guys and gals really want to get here fast, join the Army! They will literally fly you here for free to join and become a citizen after 2 months, easy.

I know a lot of suburbanites like this, they don't see or deal with problems in the country so they think the whole country runs the way their 10 house communities on the hill do. He only flies flags on Vet's day and doesn't think the military deserves as much recognition as it gets, do you really think he's aware of anything that goes on to protect his freedoms?


Its not racist to want people to come here legally. I don't sneak into Europe or Russia then demand they give me rights. I'd be shipped right on back to America or jailed.

its not a ridiculous waiting period, like I said I have at least 12 examples were people were US citizens, certified and all, within 2 months.

Not sure I agree about the 2 months comment. Getting a temp visa into the US is easy, getting a visa that lets you work, a greencard or citizenship is lengthy and usually people that make it through have help from a company with lawyers and help.

Disagreeing is a good thing... part of a civilized society. How many countries exist where we'd all be dragfed into the streets and shot for openly disagreeing with the cboices their gvt is a making. I bet this guy doesnt even sippirt the things hes saying. Hes enjoys just getting a rise out of everyone and the attention. Sadly i fed into this

Are you comparing to 1st world countries or 3rd word? I have traveled to multiple countries where the population is a lot more vocal than in the US. Protests are a lot more common and heavily supported. That is usually non-violent protests btw. I do not condone any kind of violent protests.

 

[Warborg]

Are you comparing to 1st world countries or 3rd word? I have traveled to multiple countries where the population is a lot more vocal than in the US. Protests are a lot more common and heavily supported. That is usually non-violent protests btw. I do not condone any kind of violent protests.

Violent protest are allowed if they come from the left.

 

[predatorkeeper87]

Not sure I agree about the 2 months comment. Getting a temp visa into the US is easy, getting a visa that lets you work, a greencard or citizenship is lengthy and usually people that make it through have help from a company with lawyers and help.



Are you comparing to 1st world countries or 3rd word? I have traveled to multiple countries where the population is a lot more vocal than in the US. Protests are a lot more common and heavily supported. That is usually non-violent protests btw. I do not condone any kind of violent protests.

My observations were for military trainees. The process is fast if you pass the background check and you sign up to serve. Just coming to live and work here without that assistance is a much longer process, but necessary regardless.


Peace through violence is my philosophy. Peace has its place, unfortunately violence is how mankind will always get there. Only necessary violence mind you.

 

[nzafi]

I think the concepts are simple for what needs to be done, the problem is the bureaucracy.

1) US immigration system is broken. Way too complex, not merit based which deters immigration of better qualified/wanted migration. This leads to increased illegal immigration because folks dont want to wait.

2) Deportation. I dont think anyone is against deportation of criminals. The problem is what do you do with all the hard working illegal immigrants that actually contribute to society. There are alot more than you think. I honestly believe there are more "good" illegals here than violent/criminals. It is the criminals that get the attention. I have no sympathy for those at all.

3) The wall - To me Trumps plan is idiotic and appeals mostly to fools. Something needs to be done. I would say increasing soldiers, use of drone technology, and some sort of fencing like already exists is the best it will get. Spending $10-20B on a concrete wall is not going to help seeing it can be dug over and climbed. Hence using more modern technology.

 

[Thekid]

What we have isn't working. Trump won based on what has happened the last eight years.

Obamacare wasn't anything more than a redistribution of wealth.

If you come here legally then absolutely you should stay here, if you don't come here legally you should gtfo. Most illegals will use fake social security numbers and that's another crime.

I don't think we should be taking in other countries trash/refugees when we can't even take care of our veterans.

 

[Warborg]

2) Deportation. I dont think anyone is against deportation of criminals. The problem is what do you do with all the hard working illegal immigrants that actually contribute to society. There are alot more than you think. I honestly believe there are more "good" illegals here than violent/criminals. It is the criminals that get the attention. I have no sympathy for those at all.

I personally don't support any illegals but the reality is there is no way we can deport 11+ million of them. So, I do agree to focus on those that commit a second crime.


Edit: To clarify my statement. Any illegal caught should be deported. I just meant ice/police should not be letting repeat criminals go while going after the 11 million.

 

[jaws7777]

Not sure I agree about the 2 months comment. Getting a temp visa into the US is easy, getting a visa that lets you work, a greencard or citizenship is lengthy and usually people that make it through have help from a company with lawyers and help.



Are you comparing to 1st world countries or 3rd word? I have traveled to multiple countries where the population is a lot more vocal than in the US. Protests are a lot more common and heavily supported. That is usually non-violent protests btw. I do not condone any kind of violent protests.

Im mot comparing anything. Just a general statement that such freedoms are no afforded in allot of countries

3) The wall - To me Trumps plan is idiotic and appeals mostly to fools. Something needs to be done. I would say increasing soldiers, use of drone technology, and some sort of fencing like already exists is the best it will get. Spending $10-20B on a concrete wall is not going to help seeing it can be dug over and climbed. Hence using more modern technology.

Are you aware how many countries have walls/fences? As a tax payer im happy to see my tax dollars go towards something that MAY help. Plus its allot more than just a concrete wall.

Yes very complicated and deporting all would be an issue BUT no way in hell should illegals be allowed to practice law, become teachers, and get public assistance esspecially when we have U.S citizens who are homeless and starving

 

[nzafi]

What we have isn't working. Trump won based on what has happened the last eight years.

Obamacare wasn't anything more than a redistribution of wealth.

If you come here legally then absolutely you should stay here, if you don't come here legally you should gtfo. Most illegals will use fake social security numbers and that's another crime.

I don't think we should be taking in other countries trash/refugees when we can't even take care of our veterans.

I dont agree with the obamacare piece. How is it a redistribution of wealth? The taxes that are applied on the wealthy are small unless you are making a crap ton of money. For example, if you are making $300K you will pay between $75-100 in additional taxes because of obamacare. If you are making $5M+ its going to be more significantly obviously. The average household is making like $60K depending on location. You are talking about taxing the top 1%.

I agree with the individual mandate and the primary reason being that one of the biggest factors of spiraling costs in healthcare is all the individuals in the past that had no insurance. They would not pay, declare bankruptcy, etc that would result in hospitals/doctors absorbing costs and passing it to others.

What I do not agree with is the way that obamacare limits the market. People should be allowed to buy insurance that fits their budget and their needs. It currently forces you to buy a lot of stuff you may not want. They should have followed a system like Swizterland were you are pretty much forced to by catastrophic insurance and then add on whatever else you want. This way young/healthy folks and others have the ability to buy cheaper plans, versus the mess we have now where only sick people are buying insurance.

 

[jaws7777]

I dont agree with the obamacare piece. How is it a redistribution of wealth? The taxes that are applied on the wealthy are small unless you are making a crap ton of money. For example, if you are making $300K you will pay between $75-100 in additional taxes because of obamacare. If you are making $5M+ its going to be more significantly obviously. The average household is making like $60K depending on location. You are talking about taxing the top 1%.

I agree with the individual mandate and the primary reason being that one of the biggest factors of spiraling costs in healthcare is all the individuals in the past that had no insurance. They would not pay, declare bankruptcy, etc that would result in hospitals/doctors absorbing costs and passing it to others.

What I do not agree with is the way that obamacare limits the market. People should be allowed to buy insurance that fits their budget and their needs. It currently forces you to buy a lot of stuff you may not want. They should have followed a system like Swizterland were you are pretty much forced to by catastrophic insurance and then add on whatever else you want. This way young/healthy folks and others have the ability to buy cheaper plans, versus the mess we have now where only sick people are buying insurance.

all of that sounds great except for the real world facts. Its simply NOT affordable unless you are boarder line poverty level. My wife was quoted with 1400 per month 50 dollar co pays 100 dollar specialist fees and i think the deductible was 3 or 4k and that was for her and two children didnt even include me