Orca seriously injured at seaworld
- Thread starter Mount_Prion
- Start date
Calling everyone hypocrites is one of the most mentally lazy rebuttals ever, barely above name calling, and about as productive.
So maybe some of us are hypocrites; that is doesn't refute whether or not cetaceans are suitable for captivity. It's not a counterpoint to any of the arguments against housing them. It's akin to telling someone you don't like their behavior, so any opinions or facts from them are automatically invalidated, which is irrational on both sides of any argument.
So maybe some of us are hypocrites; that is doesn't refute whether or not cetaceans are suitable for captivity. It's not a counterpoint to any of the arguments against housing them. It's akin to telling someone you don't like their behavior, so any opinions or facts from them are automatically invalidated, which is irrational on both sides of any argument.
The individual, based on morals and ethics. That's why these arguments get so heated. There is no black and white on the subject, or housing of any other captive animal, other than most people agree that pure neglect is wrong.
My personal beef is with places like Seaword rationalizing their captivity by calling themselves rescue, research and educational facilities. The fact is, they do do a lot of rescue and some education, but they are also in it for a profit, and that's their main focus.
Their keeping of orcas isn't necessary for education, it adds very little to research regarding normal behavior in wild specimens, and it's not a rescue program since they breed them for use and sale.
But it does draw a hell of a crowd, which is their purpose for keeping them.
This is also not the first time Seaworld has been caught mistreating or improperly housing specimens. As far back as the 70s they had their capture permit revoked for their behavior.
Which, speaking of hypocrites, make them a prime candidate since they don't always follow the guidelines they espouse.
Obviously you never had a loved one who medically required them, having zero comprehension of what you throw out not seriously- but to demean a person.
This is an opinion thread. arguments are never more important than people.
...except for a few monstrous exceptions.
A loved one who needed an MRI or a CAT scan? They arent treatments for anything, they are diagnostic tools, and knowing a loved one who has had them doesnt make it demeaning or insulting because people get them for injuries like broken bones and stuff like that.
But that's way off topic.
Ballin', the issue isnt Whale intelligence, I stated that I dont really have an issue with Apes in captivity... Apes being very intelligent as well... it's just that it's far more difficult to provide mental stimulation and enrichment for a large constantly moving marine mammal than to an animal like an Ape.
But that's way off topic.
Ballin', the issue isnt Whale intelligence, I stated that I dont really have an issue with Apes in captivity... Apes being very intelligent as well... it's just that it's far more difficult to provide mental stimulation and enrichment for a large constantly moving marine mammal than to an animal like an Ape.
I find it amazing how many opinions are being expressed without knowledge (real knowledge - not internet regurgitation) and how many assumptions are being made about this situation.
Some of the "facts" (and adjectives) about marine mammals in this thread are just plain wrong.
It's not any more difficult to mentally enrich a marine mammal compared to 'higher level' land mammals (ie: great apes). And a lot more goes into it than "Just throwing balls in a pool". That kind of statement is so far off base it's not even funny.
Parks do not breed and sell marine mammal offspring for profit. There are rules/regulations, plans, extensive genetics work/charting etc... I'll be honest when I say 80% of it is beyond what most MFKers will ever understand.
Rescue that big parks do is why several species still are around in the wild at all and play a HUGE roll in many parks.
Volumes of information is obtained from animals under human care (rescue or for display). Saying they play no role other than show/profit is wrong. What we've learned from animals in our care has lead to much better wild population management plans to keep those in the wild alive for the future.
Marine mammals are not all consistantly moving. Many do find an area and stay there. The other thing to look at is why the areas are where they are and the size they are. Usually it's to provide for all the needs of the animal in the wild. The #1 reason is food supply. If you can provide that, the area of the 'territory' greatly reduces itself. That's not opinion - that's biological research supported in the field.
Human neglect can't be pointed to for this (from what I know of the situation).
And it seems like somewhere someone mentioned being against this, and only dolphins being suited for controlled environments. Just FYI, Ocras are dolphins.
Some of the "facts" (and adjectives) about marine mammals in this thread are just plain wrong.
It's not any more difficult to mentally enrich a marine mammal compared to 'higher level' land mammals (ie: great apes). And a lot more goes into it than "Just throwing balls in a pool". That kind of statement is so far off base it's not even funny.
Parks do not breed and sell marine mammal offspring for profit. There are rules/regulations, plans, extensive genetics work/charting etc... I'll be honest when I say 80% of it is beyond what most MFKers will ever understand.
Rescue that big parks do is why several species still are around in the wild at all and play a HUGE roll in many parks.
Volumes of information is obtained from animals under human care (rescue or for display). Saying they play no role other than show/profit is wrong. What we've learned from animals in our care has lead to much better wild population management plans to keep those in the wild alive for the future.
Marine mammals are not all consistantly moving. Many do find an area and stay there. The other thing to look at is why the areas are where they are and the size they are. Usually it's to provide for all the needs of the animal in the wild. The #1 reason is food supply. If you can provide that, the area of the 'territory' greatly reduces itself. That's not opinion - that's biological research supported in the field.
Human neglect can't be pointed to for this (from what I know of the situation).
And it seems like somewhere someone mentioned being against this, and only dolphins being suited for controlled environments. Just FYI, Ocras are dolphins.
About time!
I'm confused Aj, do you have a formula the rest of the biologists don't? Some equation involving IQ and mass and a magical number it should not eclipse to be suitable for captivity?
I get what you're saying about how it's a poor choice but to others you're attempting to play God and bending the argument to suit your need. A true hypocrite approach
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I get what you're saying about how it's a poor choice but to others you're attempting to play God and bending the argument to suit your need. A true hypocrite approach
Sent from my iPhone using MonsterAquariaNetwork app
