Overcrowding

[crisper]

I believe aggression can not be eliminated by overstocking. It just helps spreading it out. But once one particularly aggressive cichlid decides it wants to kill off another fish no amount of overstocking will help. All the focus will be on that one fish until it is destroyed.

 

[thorzep]

aquamojo nailed it, and bitteraspects lay off balton dude!!! you may be right it may curb agression, but a male dovii will reach 20+inches so would you consider a 9" an adult? or see n how destructive a 12" thats pissed off can be? this is a site of people who keep and love there fish so they want you to do what best to take care of them. That is a cool community setup however if it does end up working. looks like a good sized tank too whats the gallons on that one?

 

[Gomer]

It seems to work for a longer period of time then if the tank was not overcrowded, But they will eventually start ticking of eachother as they mature. I've seen it happen many times with my friends 300 gallon tank. He has to add new fish every year or so. It just seems to buy you more "time" by dispersing aggression to a certain level.

 

[balton777]

to be fair to balton777 he mentioned about providing proof of keeping adult fish of that aggression level together like your doing. you admit earlier on that the biggest fish, a 9" dovii and mayan, are more than big enough to kill all. but you do realise that dovii are nowhere near adults at 9".
when he has challenged your "proof" you just tell him to shut up. meaning you cant or wont answer his question directly.
i think you need to provide proof of adult fish, ie 20+" dovii, living in that tank with everything else in harmony because aggression is so spread out. you should do this before telling people to shut up when they ask for proof or your words will have no credit in a post you started.

it is a good poll though, i have read about applying the overcrowding theory to new world tanks but it appears to have substantially less success than in a rift lake setting. the theory is good and is proven with africans but i do think that overcrowding new world cichlids is just postponing the innevitable. eventually someone is gonna snap and do the nasty. it may, however, work with cichlids that are less aggressive than dovii. in a tank like that your just providing dovii with its natural prey in an enclosed setting. hunting other fish is what it does, pure and simple. your just taking out the hunting or challenge aspect to its prey.

Thanks and I want to apologize to bitteraspects if I came across as rude. I just rarely ever see this type of overcrowding thing last for very long.

About five years ago is when I first heard of overcrowding a CA/SA tank to reduce aggression and it sounded viable at the time. Back then my biggest tank was a 156g and decided 10 large CA's was pretty darn overcrowded but I wanted lots of fish. I put the fish in as juvies mostly 3-5" (figuring if they grew up together it would be better)and it worked for almost a year. It wasn't a peaceful tank even when they were small but it seemed fine. When they grew up, they were fighting all the time. Most of the fish always looked tattered and torn and I'd have casualties here and there. I would then go out and find another big fish to replace it. If I couldn't find a big cichlid, I would get a smaller one and I noticed the bigger fish ignored the small cichlids and fight each other. I would go around bragging about my set up only to be met with lots of flaming. After a while I got sick and tired of the fighting and knew everyone was right. I dropped the number of fish to four and most of the aggression was gone. The Jag established his own territory for the first time ever. The Festae, Synspillum and barred Midas seemed to get along much better as well. The fish seem much happier, less stressed and more natural...plus my stress level dropped as well.

When I got my 265, I tried it again with the same results.

Even though the poll is winning 31 to 10 to 8 right now, I wonder how many people who picked the first answer actually have this kind of tank.

Will the 31 people who picked the first answer please post video of your sucessful super overcrowded tanks? Also please tell how many fish and how long the tank has been successful. Thanks.

 

[cichlidfish]

I think over crowding works most of the time, but not always. It depends on the fish, and tank size.
I don't beleive that re-aquascaping works. Most cichilds aren't that dumb.

 

[Guapote]

It decreases aggresion but RAISES stress levels IMO..

 

[balton777]

Whenever I see this topic come up I have to shake my head and think, "here's someone else trying to justify keeping more fish than the tank can safely hold." The issue shouldn't be can they survive together, but will they thrive together. An excessive amount of juvenile fish in a smaller living environment is, in some ways a natural occurrence (kinda) since juvenile fish do stick together for a period of time when in the wild. The difference is water quality and the impact on their development. Large fish (CA/SA cichlids) do not with the exception being breeding.

Water purity aside, fish packed tight in a tank will show slower growth and in some cases more susceptible to disease. As an example I have four P. Fredrichsthali in a 100 gallon tank and two in a 300 gallon tank with four Blue Labridens. All of the fish were in a separate 300 grow out for the first part of their life growing out together...and the same size. The fish that were "crowded" into the 100 gallon tank are now smaller by almost an inch than the fish in the larger tank. I wouldn't consider the 100 small for four fish...but the point made is that a smaller container will yield smaller fish.

Fish release phermones in the water that lets all of the fish in the tank know how many are in the body of water. This might explain a lack of aggression in an "overcrowded" tank...like fist fighting in a broom closet. The second thing to consider is that in a smaller tank territories become blurred...putting the kabosh on natural cichlid behavior. Not to mention that you always have that chance that one of the fish could snap and do damage to the other fish in the tank. They may not be aggressive all of the time, but it only takes once to create a disaster. I can only speak for myself...but if I put some time into raising fish properly I don't want to roll the dice and hope their eternal piece...between my CICHLIDS. LOL

So...my two cents...it's not a matter of could it, but SHOULD it. 65% may have agreed, but I don't see that many folks posting results. It's just a poll. Fish can't respond to a poll. Practice responsible fishkeeping. If you have more fish, get more tanks.

Thank you Mo for the educated and informational post.

The thing is, we want it work but it's usually short term at best.

 

[cichlid2006]

oops i noticed i said bitteraspects started this thread. i apologise Trikkymakk and bitteraspects.

 

[rabendr2]

I think there is something to be said for different types of CA and SA's as well. Overcrowding severums and some eartheaters seems to be much more feasible than overcrowding the more aggressive Central American cichlids. Also, when i hear "trial and error" it really means individual temperment and or emergerence of breeding pairs. It's hard to give an answer either way to a question with so many other non measurable factors.

 

[Cichla dude]

It would need to be a big tank say 125-300 with lots of water changes.
Alex