Overcrowding

[Pyramid_Party]

LOL I don't think your going to see it. I would settle for an updated video of his tank currently. The video he posted of the juvies is almost 2 months old

the octagon

And the fish dont really look that good either. Bad colors on some and some look a bit tattered.

When people overcrowd a tank, all the weaker fish become just like dithers. Thats why some people think its working. But Since some of us know that aggressive fish need space/territory, its not a good idea, atleast long term anyway.

 

[pdbrady]

From my experience I have found that when I have too many fish in the tank they seem to get more aggro. When they have more room to be free then only their natural aggressiveness comes out.

I didn't post this poll to make a point or anything but only to get what other fishkeepers have found to be their experience. Everyone has a different setup and a different experience.

So kindly vote and make your experience known.

I don't want you to take my post as a stab, because it wasn't, and God knows this thread doesn't need any more of them lol. Without knowing the original discussion, I think some of the responses have taken the general question of overcrowding to full extent. I wasn't saying anyone should stuff fish into a tank as an easy resolution. Just simply that a couple more fish can disperse the attention. I don't disagree with mild overstocking. I consider my own tank mildly overstocked with 9 sa/ca in a 220. But I will not take it to a rediculous level to try and "fix" things. As I said before, I can't vote, because I do not agree with the options. If there were a "can work" or something along those lines, I could vote. Even still, there would be the point of what level of overcrowding, so on. And the "SHOULD YOU" though also comes to mind.

Also, age and size DOES play a part. You can cram all the juvies you want in perfect harmony, but when they reach maturity, there will be changes in your stock. This is a very good subject, unfortunately there are some that blow things out of proportion. Hopefully it can stay civil and open. And this is one subject where "experience" is helped by proof.

I also invite, and request, that all with experience with the subject please post some pics and vids.

 

[mbunafishkeeper]

it can reduce aggression in a tank as there are more targets so an agressor has more options to attack. it will likely not work properly as the overstocking idea originally came from the african cichlids and they look alot more alike than CA/SA.

bitteraspects, you have no idea, the fish posted in that video are not mature adults so you cant say >> theres a fine example of proof cuz thats BS and you know it. if all those fish were mature then there would be casualtys. the tank is horribly overstocked and i hope you have more tanks for them, or are going to rehome.

 

[Aquamojo]

all of you with your long winded arguments are just further proving your ignorance by trying to justify yourselves. a simple, "i disagree" is all you need to save yourself from the embarrassment. lucky for you, i have decided not to continue this ridiculous coversation about something you know nothing about. you seem to be too stubborn or ignorant to want to learn, (you make that call, its not up to me). its not helpful to the OP if you havnt done it , but still feel the need to open your mouth on the subject.

to the OP: overstocking will curb aggression, and is a very common practice. it takes a lot of work, and if done wrong, can be detramental. its not a good idea for novice fish keepers to attempt this form of husbandry, but with research, can be successful, and may end up being your favorite tank. i have 2 comm tanks and a pond personally, and i love them.
if you would like further information on the subject, feel free to message me, and ill get back to you there, but i will not be checking this thread anymore because of the circus its turned in to, thanks to certain members.

What drama. It's NOT a common practice...or at least not with people who are serious about treating the fish ethically. It may curb aggression...but so will stuffing them in a lunchbox. The only thing sad here is that some people really are interested in an answer and some discussion...NOT the "I'm taking my ball and go home" attitude.

Mbuna...he said he does...two community tanks and a pond. Since that's not the pond in the video....

Chill.

 

[seamus]

Im curious as to what people consider "ethical" treatment of fish and what is considered overstocking. Who is the judge? I've seen tanks that were somewhat heavily stocked, not ridiculous, where all the fish seemed healthy. Healthy meaning no disease, all had intact fins and great colors. Is it not fair to say that if all the fish in a given tank are healthy and that is consistent then all is good?

I find the argument that is can not be done to be pompous. I don't think mixing many types of aggressive fish in the same tank is something that should be practiced by inexperienced or irresponsible fish keepers but i don't find anything wrong with a healthy community tank.

 

[Predator726]

what facts?? you posted a link to your video and from what i observed, none of the fish are adults. also i clearly stated that when your dovii reaches 12" it would start doing some damage.

i'm not having ago at you or your tank.
everyone has different experiences with the same fish....

if you can keep all those fish in that tank until they are ALL ADULTS (my initial point) then you are my hero

That is a smart reply, very calm, everyone has their own advice and experiences, i myself overcrowded mine when they were juvies to reduce aggro (just my fish, diff fish, diff personalities) but now they are in a much larger and spaceous tank, but if you are going to do it, play it smart like i did, i had a canister filter and a marineland penguin350 running, to eliminate that ammonia, and regular waterchanges, test were done on parameters regularly and always came back good.
If you think you can make it work, go for it, after all, you know your fish, just have a backup plan ready

 

[D-Train]

What drama. It's NOT a common practice...or at least not with people who are serious about treating the fish ethically. It may curb aggression...but so will stuffing them in a lunchbox. The only thing sad here is that some people really are interested in an answer and some discussion...NOT the "I'm taking my ball and go home" attitude.

Mbuna...he said he does...two community tanks and a pond. Since that's not the pond in the video....

Chill.

I agree, Bitter aspects needs to chill out, all he ever does is start beef with people. Overcrowding doesn't curb aggression itself but spreads it out over a larger amount of fish. Just because you have more fish doesn't mean each individual fish is going to be less aggressive. It is also not fair to the fish to not give them the room they require to live happily.

 

[terd ferguson]

LOLZ, how did I ever miss this bickering jibber jabber.

Anyone who has seen any of my threads would find it hard to argue that "overcrowding" can work. 90% my fishes are adults. The rest are close enough to be able to murder tankmates if they wanted to. You can see my sig line for stocking (there used to be 2 adult GT's and 2 big TSN's. I moved these to make room for a pair of dovii). As far as overcorwiding not being a healthy environment, I'd disagree here as well. Three breeding pair of full grown adult Parachromis and a pair of full grown breeding Oscars would also disagree. My fishes aren't stunted, don't have torn up fins, facial scars, wounds, et cetera. In fact, I often have two generations of fry at the same time from the loisellis. To go further, I have fry in the tank today that hatched in September '08.

Now, with that said, it takes an enormous amount of planning and constant effort to make this kind of tank work. And I won't even mention the funds required to do it right. Suffice it to say it's a lot. But it can work. It has for me anyway. I believe you must examine each and every variable and manipulate these to work for you rather than against you. To explain how I go about this would take more than a post or two. The simple answer is I keep my fishes "happy".

terdferguson ftw. /thread

 

[cchhcc]

LOLZ, how did I ever miss this bickering jibber jabber.


terdferguson ftw. /thread

 

[fishguts]

In my 180 i have all adults 13 male inch jag, 9 inch female festae,10 inch female buttikoferi, blue dolphin, 7 inch veja and 8 inch stingray. 15 inch ornate and 10 inch indi. may sound overcrowded but when standing in front and looking it doesnt look overcrowded seeing the ray and polys stay on the bottom. i can say the jag is the dominant fish in the tank and did start to get a little mean when he paired up with the festae so i pulled the jag for about month then the butti started with my festae. i re-entered the jag and everything was fine from that point on. ive had these same group of fish together for quite some time now but i do agree it does take trial and error. i originally started with a 125 growing fish out for the 180 and i had to put and pull fish in until i found a selection that would work.
i had a rd in there that wanted to go after anything so he got yanked also had a grammode that would antagonize all the other fish so he got yanked in favor of the butti. just throwing a bunch of fish in a tank is not going to work but i think you can keep mixing the fish until you get a tank with fish of mutual understanding. saying that if you have a downright killer such as some rds and dovii you can do anything in the world and its not going to work. i think getting the right selection of fish is how to awnser the question and not overcrowding the fish. id also like to state unlike some of the tanks i see where there is just chasing going on and fish facing off withougt actually liplocking there is none of that in my tank. they seem peaceful and are all front row to greet me when i come to the tank.