Rio mongo convicts?
- Thread starter ewok
- Start date
i want some now too! haha. right now for cryptoheros i have a pair of septemfaciatus, one nanoluteus left a myrnae and a few asst. cons. (pink, jelly bean and a regular).
some hrps are hopefully to be added to this list soon. i cant wait!
so what was the ruling? what exactly are your fish ewok??? what ever they are i want some!
crypts for life! haha!
p.s. what happens if you cross a CRYPT. and a BLOOD parrot?? gang war??
some hrps are hopefully to be added to this list soon. i cant wait!
so what was the ruling? what exactly are your fish ewok??? what ever they are i want some!
crypts for life! haha!
p.s. what happens if you cross a CRYPT. and a BLOOD parrot?? gang war??
here's a comment from dan woodland (whom from what i understand is a very respected hobbyist). i posted this same question and here are two separate comments:
"when we visited Rio Monga we found Cryptoheros sp. "red point" (these aren't described yet) and Archocentrus nigrofasciatus for a total of two Cichlids. Cryptoheros cutteri appears farther to the west in the Rio Belaire etc.. there are also convicts in Rio Belaire and area rivers (Rio Belaire is still east of Le Ceiba but not as far east as Rio Monga). If I remember correctly there is a natural barrier between the two ranges which makes sense that there is two different fish in those areas.
C. siquia as mentioned above is actually Archocentrus siquia and as I recall does not occur in Rio Monga.
Here is an excerpt from the paper defining the new fish and reclassifying others. C. or A. siquia is not mentioned...
Genus Archocentrus Gill
Archocentrus centrarchus (Gill, 1877)
Archocentrus multispinosus (Gunther, 1867)
Archocentrus spinosissimus (Vaillant & Pellegrin, 1902)
Genus Cryptoheros All***er
Panamius, n. subgen
Cryptoheros panamensis (Meek & Hildebrand, 1913), n. comb.
Subgenus Cryptoheros All***er
Cryptoheros spilurus (Gunther, 1862)
Cryptoheros chetumalensis, new species
Cryptoheros cutteri (Fowler, 1932), n. comb.
Bussingius, n. subgen.
Cryptoheros septemfasciatus (Regan, 1908)
Cryptoheros altoflavus All***er, 2001
Cryptoheros myrnae (Loiselle, 1997)
Cryptoheros nanoluteus (All***er, 1994)
Cryptoheros sajica (Bussing, 1974)
Amatitlania, new genus
Amatitlania nigrofasciata (Gunther, 1867), n. comb.
Amatitlania coatepeque, new species
Amatitlania kanna, new species
Amatitlania siquia, new species
Rocio, new genus
Rocio octofasciata (Regan, 1903), n. comb.
Rocio ocotal, new species
Rocio gemmata Contreras-Balderas & Schmitter-Soto, new species
Genus Hypsophrys Agassiz
Hypsophrys nicaraguensis (Gunther, 1859)
Hypsophrys nematopus (Gunther, 1867), n. comb.
Abstract
The cichlid genus Archocentrus has been considered one of the most promising (i.e., possibly natural) genera resurrected to receive some of the species formerly included in Cichlasoma. Evidence is presented to justify generic recognition of Archocentrus, as well as eight other closely related genera (Caquetaia, Hypsophrys, Parachromis, Amphilophus, Archocentrus, Cryptoheros, Amatitlania, and Rocio). Of these, Amatitlania (type species, A. nigrofasciata) and Rocio (type species, R. octofasciata) are described as new. The present revision treats all nominal species ever assigned to Archocentrus, as well as species that have been included in or near the same clade as Archocentrus centrarchus (type species of the genus) in available phylogenetic analyses. Geographical variation in morphology of the more widespread species was examined, which has resulted in the description of six new species (Cryptoheros chetumalensis, Amatitlania coatepeque, A. kanna, A. siquia, Rocio gemmata, and R. ocotal) with a seventh resurrected from synonymy (Cryptoheros cutteri). Archocentrus includes the type species (Ar. centrarchus), plus Ar. spinosissimus and Ar. multispinosus. Cryptoheros is restricted to the species complexes of Cr. spilurus (= subgenus Cryptoheros, including also Cr. chetumalensis and Cr. cutteri) and Cr. septemfasciatus (= Bussingius n. subgen., including also Cryptoheros altoflavus, Cr. nanoluteus, Cr. myrnae, and Cr. sajica); Cryptoheros panamensis is placed in Panamius n. subgen. Herotilapia is synonymized with Archocentrus, and Neetroplus is synonymized with Hypsophrys, which now includes the type species H. nicaraguensis and H. nematopus. Lectotypes are designated for Amatitlania nigrofasciata, Archocentrus spinosissimus, Cryptoheros septemfasciatus, Cr. spilurus, and Rocio octofasciata. Cichlasoma immaculatum is considered to be a synonym of Archocentrus spilurus, not of Ar. spinosissimus. "
"Cryptoheros nanaluteus occurs in North Western Panama - Boca del Toro province (state), Panama.
We found the Amatitlania nigrofasciatus in a number of rivers in Honduras together with Cryptoheros cutteri and the Cryptoheros sp. 'red point'.
Convict (Not a great picture but you should get the idea)
"Red point"
if you are able to fully digest the scientific language your answer is somewhere inside there.
i posted the same pictures to him and i'll wait and see what he says. i think the cryptoheros family is being divided. i read somewhere that HRPs are actually their own fish species as opposed to being seen as a color variant of the convict.
"when we visited Rio Monga we found Cryptoheros sp. "red point" (these aren't described yet) and Archocentrus nigrofasciatus for a total of two Cichlids. Cryptoheros cutteri appears farther to the west in the Rio Belaire etc.. there are also convicts in Rio Belaire and area rivers (Rio Belaire is still east of Le Ceiba but not as far east as Rio Monga). If I remember correctly there is a natural barrier between the two ranges which makes sense that there is two different fish in those areas.
C. siquia as mentioned above is actually Archocentrus siquia and as I recall does not occur in Rio Monga.
Here is an excerpt from the paper defining the new fish and reclassifying others. C. or A. siquia is not mentioned...
Genus Archocentrus Gill
Archocentrus centrarchus (Gill, 1877)
Archocentrus multispinosus (Gunther, 1867)
Archocentrus spinosissimus (Vaillant & Pellegrin, 1902)
Genus Cryptoheros All***er
Panamius, n. subgen
Cryptoheros panamensis (Meek & Hildebrand, 1913), n. comb.
Subgenus Cryptoheros All***er
Cryptoheros spilurus (Gunther, 1862)
Cryptoheros chetumalensis, new species
Cryptoheros cutteri (Fowler, 1932), n. comb.
Bussingius, n. subgen.
Cryptoheros septemfasciatus (Regan, 1908)
Cryptoheros altoflavus All***er, 2001
Cryptoheros myrnae (Loiselle, 1997)
Cryptoheros nanoluteus (All***er, 1994)
Cryptoheros sajica (Bussing, 1974)
Amatitlania, new genus
Amatitlania nigrofasciata (Gunther, 1867), n. comb.
Amatitlania coatepeque, new species
Amatitlania kanna, new species
Amatitlania siquia, new species
Rocio, new genus
Rocio octofasciata (Regan, 1903), n. comb.
Rocio ocotal, new species
Rocio gemmata Contreras-Balderas & Schmitter-Soto, new species
Genus Hypsophrys Agassiz
Hypsophrys nicaraguensis (Gunther, 1859)
Hypsophrys nematopus (Gunther, 1867), n. comb.
Abstract
The cichlid genus Archocentrus has been considered one of the most promising (i.e., possibly natural) genera resurrected to receive some of the species formerly included in Cichlasoma. Evidence is presented to justify generic recognition of Archocentrus, as well as eight other closely related genera (Caquetaia, Hypsophrys, Parachromis, Amphilophus, Archocentrus, Cryptoheros, Amatitlania, and Rocio). Of these, Amatitlania (type species, A. nigrofasciata) and Rocio (type species, R. octofasciata) are described as new. The present revision treats all nominal species ever assigned to Archocentrus, as well as species that have been included in or near the same clade as Archocentrus centrarchus (type species of the genus) in available phylogenetic analyses. Geographical variation in morphology of the more widespread species was examined, which has resulted in the description of six new species (Cryptoheros chetumalensis, Amatitlania coatepeque, A. kanna, A. siquia, Rocio gemmata, and R. ocotal) with a seventh resurrected from synonymy (Cryptoheros cutteri). Archocentrus includes the type species (Ar. centrarchus), plus Ar. spinosissimus and Ar. multispinosus. Cryptoheros is restricted to the species complexes of Cr. spilurus (= subgenus Cryptoheros, including also Cr. chetumalensis and Cr. cutteri) and Cr. septemfasciatus (= Bussingius n. subgen., including also Cryptoheros altoflavus, Cr. nanoluteus, Cr. myrnae, and Cr. sajica); Cryptoheros panamensis is placed in Panamius n. subgen. Herotilapia is synonymized with Archocentrus, and Neetroplus is synonymized with Hypsophrys, which now includes the type species H. nicaraguensis and H. nematopus. Lectotypes are designated for Amatitlania nigrofasciata, Archocentrus spinosissimus, Cryptoheros septemfasciatus, Cr. spilurus, and Rocio octofasciata. Cichlasoma immaculatum is considered to be a synonym of Archocentrus spilurus, not of Ar. spinosissimus. "
"Cryptoheros nanaluteus occurs in North Western Panama - Boca del Toro province (state), Panama.
We found the Amatitlania nigrofasciatus in a number of rivers in Honduras together with Cryptoheros cutteri and the Cryptoheros sp. 'red point'.
Convict (Not a great picture but you should get the idea)
"Red point"
if you are able to fully digest the scientific language your answer is somewhere inside there.
i posted the same pictures to him and i'll wait and see what he says. i think the cryptoheros family is being divided. i read somewhere that HRPs are actually their own fish species as opposed to being seen as a color variant of the convict.
Just to add to the confusion the A. siquia we have are from Rio Cabuyo. Females don't get red/orange bellies and males don't get red in the fins but overall seem to be more yellow than the average "con".
When it comes to your fish I'm as confused as you are. Your fish look like "cons" with some red in the fins, not HRP's which seems simple enough, but Rusty is saying that "cons" (A. siquia) are not found in Rio Mongo. So then your fish would either have to be A) HRP's or B) not really from Rio Mongo.
When it comes to your fish I'm as confused as you are. Your fish look like "cons" with some red in the fins, not HRP's which seems simple enough, but Rusty is saying that "cons" (A. siquia) are not found in Rio Mongo. So then your fish would either have to be A) HRP's or B) not really from Rio Mongo.
straitjacketstar;1256560; said:Just to add to the confusion the A. siquia we have are from Rio Cabuyo. Females don't get red/orange bellies and males don't get red in the fins but overall seem to be more yellow than the average "con".
When it comes to your fish I'm as confused as you are. Your fish look like "cons" with some red in the fins, not HRP's which seems simple enough, but Rusty is saying that "cons" (A. siquia) are not found in Rio Mongo. So then your fish would either have to be A) HRP's or B) not really from Rio Mongo.
wait, convict cichlids = A.siquia ???
now i'm completely confused.
post some pictures of your fish so we can see
thanks to adding to the confusion btw...
If you read the whole paper on the revision of Archocentrus (as I have) you will see the distribution of A. nigrofasiatus does not come anywhere close to the Rio Monga in North Eastern Honduras, but are restricted to Guatamala, El Salvador and Western Honduras, fish which were previously considered as convicts are now classified as A. siquia, which reside in eastern Honduras, Nicaragua and Costa Rica, The convict type fish in Panama are now classified as A. kanna. Honduran Red Points are another undiscribed species that was not considered in the revision of the Family and is currently being scientifically discribed, Thus in my opinion most if not all domestic convicts are hybrids, many of the HRP in the commercial trade have also been hybridized with convict type fish, I'm sure more new species will be discribed as futhur work is done on this group of fish, Thus the need to keep wild populations pure. Dan spent and hour or two a the Rio Monga in the upper reaches of the river where it is basically a stream and collected HRP with Rusty, I have been there three times and collected extensivily, There are three species on Cryptoheros in that river, C. sp HRP, A. siquia (which Dan believes are convicts) and C cutteri. Hope this helps. Ken
my head hurts
*goes and lies down*
someone wake me up when they tell me what i have
ken - from my pictures, what would you classify my fish as? i just need someone to tell me it's this or that
*goes and lies down*
someone wake me up when they tell me what i have
ken - from my pictures, what would you classify my fish as? i just need someone to tell me it's this or that
This is just more confusing because of the new classifications that have taken affect. Once we all get familiar with all of the new classifications it will be easier to eplain/comprehend.....I would love a link to the new classifacations.......
