Why "lots of veg"? I am not convinced Haitiensis need substantial amounts of vegetable matter in their diet.Dmaan.;2565501; said:
Special Haitiensis diet questions/requirements?
- Thread starter capefeartarheel
- Start date
I lost 6 Haits to bloat, had them all in a 120 with temps up to 86 constantly, fed them a varied diet and never worried too much about veggies. I honestly believe the main cause of them bloating was the ammount of stress they put eachother through. I got them at 1.5" and even at that small size with all the space they had, they hated eachother lol.
I also heard a theory, not sure how true it may be but who knows... When feeding too late at night the food the fish eats doesnt get used up like it would during the day, just sitting in the stomach. Im not sure how much weight this has on the fish getting bloat or anything like that, but who knows, it seems like nobody knows exactly why its so hard to prevent.
I also heard a theory, not sure how true it may be but who knows... When feeding too late at night the food the fish eats doesnt get used up like it would during the day, just sitting in the stomach. Im not sure how much weight this has on the fish getting bloat or anything like that, but who knows, it seems like nobody knows exactly why its so hard to prevent.
This is an interesting discussion, for I have killed more haits than I should admit, and it seems the lack of any of one of the major factors will easily kill them.
I tried a heavy veg diet, high temps and separation, and believe all are important (especially when young).
Haits are ancient and have seemingly evolved with little competition, making them an unspecialized fish. This allows them to feed on anything in their environment. But many of these unspecialized types use algae as a kind of constant forage due to its abundence in their natural habitat.
And although they seem adept at killing other fish (especially ones their own size) haits do not appear to be very adept hunters to me, and don't usually eat what they kill, at least in my tanks.
Some 1" Paratherps breidori fry have overflowed into the tank with my >12' pair and seem to swim among them with impunity (and a some minor evasive manuvering).
I believe the normal main protein source in nature for haitiensus is a bit paltry compared to what very specialized mainland piscivores need or have available, and/or, that our rich manufactured sources provide.
I tried a heavy veg diet, high temps and separation, and believe all are important (especially when young).
Haits are ancient and have seemingly evolved with little competition, making them an unspecialized fish. This allows them to feed on anything in their environment. But many of these unspecialized types use algae as a kind of constant forage due to its abundence in their natural habitat.
And although they seem adept at killing other fish (especially ones their own size) haits do not appear to be very adept hunters to me, and don't usually eat what they kill, at least in my tanks.
Some 1" Paratherps breidori fry have overflowed into the tank with my >12' pair and seem to swim among them with impunity (and a some minor evasive manuvering).
I believe the normal main protein source in nature for haitiensus is a bit paltry compared to what very specialized mainland piscivores need or have available, and/or, that our rich manufactured sources provide.
I do not agree on the 1st point. I agree on the 2nd point to some degree, but the third point is a major point that I left out of my earlier post. I had better luck when I doubled my normal water-change schedule on haits.Dmaan.;2565501; said:
I have had good luck feeding earthworms, large mealworms, and crickets to haits. I also read an article somewhere suggesting that haits like snails. Snails have never flourished in my hait tank, but have taken over tanks with Paratheraps sp. and even my dovii. I do feed some veggie-based foods, but I'm a big proponent of a varied diet with any fish.
What is in in the "veg" that hobbyists feed to their Haits that is lacking in an otherwise "usual" diet of high-quality cichlid pellets as a staple? Surely it is a deficiency of some particular nutrient that is present in this certain "veg" and absent in typical foods people give their cichlids that causes this bloat? However, most, if not all, pellet foods on the market contain vitamins, beta-carotene and various other nutrients, so what exactly is lacking?
I do not believe Haits require significant proportions of vegetable matter in their diet, and that a diet lacking in "veg" causes bloat. Since Haitiensis are built so similarly to Grammodes, and the latter is generally considered carnivorous (or at least, a "carnivorous omnivore", for lack of a better term), why would the former be so easily afflicted with such a lethal disease simply because of a lack of vegetable matter?
I do not believe Haits require significant proportions of vegetable matter in their diet, and that a diet lacking in "veg" causes bloat. Since Haitiensis are built so similarly to Grammodes, and the latter is generally considered carnivorous (or at least, a "carnivorous omnivore", for lack of a better term), why would the former be so easily afflicted with such a lethal disease simply because of a lack of vegetable matter?
Great discussion!
(Knock on wood) I've never really had problems with bloat with Haits or other CAs...
As duane stated, Haits are primitive and unspecialized. Probably omnivores in nature. That means that they should have a varied diet in the aquarium.
So how does bloat arise, even in situations where people are doing lots of water changes on big tanks?
My best guess would be intra-species aggression / stress. One possible way of alleviating this would be to mix small Haits with a bunch of other CA's (ports, Vieja, Nicaraguense, etc. come to mind) that aren't too aggressive and will spread aggression. Anyone tried this approach?
(Knock on wood) I've never really had problems with bloat with Haits or other CAs...
As duane stated, Haits are primitive and unspecialized. Probably omnivores in nature. That means that they should have a varied diet in the aquarium.
So how does bloat arise, even in situations where people are doing lots of water changes on big tanks?
My best guess would be intra-species aggression / stress. One possible way of alleviating this would be to mix small Haits with a bunch of other CA's (ports, Vieja, Nicaraguense, etc. come to mind) that aren't too aggressive and will spread aggression. Anyone tried this approach?
I agree. In fact, all fish should be fed varied diets in aquaria. But some Hait keepers advocate feeding substantial amounts of vegetable matter to their Haits. Certainly, wild Haits do supplement their diets with some veg, but I believe the amounts are minor. I doubt their natural diet incorporates a significant proportion of vegetable matter, and so, bloat should not be attributed to the relative lack of veg in the diet.dogofwar;2566221; said:
I, too, think stress from conspecific aggression plays a major part, as well as water quality and chemistry. Do we have an idea of the pH and hardness of Haitiensis habitats? I don't think anyone has attempted to replicate these conditions. I'm sure this plays a part as well.
Yes. Haits are very touchy with stress. Many of you have pointed this out. Stress will allow the protozoan Hexamita to proliferate beyond the point where it naturally exits in the gut. This causes binding and slowed movement in the tract. Clean water helps reduce stress. Epsom salt helps clear the gut. Metronidazole kills the protozoan. If the fish (hait) seems stressed they won't eat and they will have a white, stringy fecal discharge. I have had normal, healthy haits until I dropped a new, larger, more aggressive fish in the tank. Haits quit eating and died. The fish came from another tank I had and had been there for months so i do not suspect disease transmission. Plenty of hiding spots helps stress-prone fish too.dogofwar;2566221; said:
