This is getting too political. And honestly, society can become ruthless already with law, they could all create riots and cause havoc, everyone can choose to break rules. and we all do whether it is just plain speeding or shoplifting. and some do get away with it. Its not law, its morals. society is always lying on thin ice, until people get tired of it. I mean, if murder was legalised, who can truly say they would take someones life, their one chance at living on earth, breathing, experiencing love, raising a family? I could honestly say I wouldn't, I was taught morals and morals are what taught me to keep in line, not laws.
The-ocean-is-broken
- Thread starter thebiggerthebetter
- Start date
Old traditionalists generally dont change their ways from my experience. So I'm skeptical, and fearful. They'll be finned to the point of extinction I'm afraid as human populations will increase and I imagine so will the demand.
In a society with representative government, and even in older monarchies, "law" IS the morality of most of the members of society. You say morals keep you in line, so you don't need laws? It's the exact opposite. Because you, and most other people in your society, have a moral objection to murder, that is why there is a law against it. The morals of the individuals are what made it sensible to enshrine the prohibition against murder into law. The law is not what created the moral judgement. The moral judgement created the law. The people get exactly the government they want--always have.
Bringing this back to the OP, I think we can all agree that the laws today are A LOT better than they were 40 years ago. The world's fisheries are al ot better now than they were 40 years ago, too. Many threatened species in our oceans have made a comeback in the last 40 years. There has been great improvement because populations of the world's civilized countries wanted there to be. And then there was. I think it's a lot better than most people realize.
Bringing this back to the OP, I think we can all agree that the laws today are A LOT better than they were 40 years ago. The world's fisheries are al ot better now than they were 40 years ago, too. Many threatened species in our oceans have made a comeback in the last 40 years. There has been great improvement because populations of the world's civilized countries wanted there to be. And then there was. I think it's a lot better than most people realize.
I never said I don't like "civilized society" or would enjoy "anarchy" more, but the fact is a lot of the laws pertaining to ocean life are either ignored, or geared so there is a loophole, like "scientific research". I think their quota of thousands of whales is kind of crazy... if it was a few of whatever specie and NONE of the meat went to market to be sold off as "dolphin" then I wouldn't care, and I don't think there would be boats full of people trying to harass them into quitting if it was laws were based on morals as you say.
Either way, I think everyone can agree that in most places conservation has been overrun by loopholers and poachers. We literally need more people out in boats trying to stop things like that if we do actually want our grandchildren to be able to catch a salmon, see a whale etc. If you see people taking illegal fish and game YELL AT EM, make a damn scene, get the authorities involved etc.
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Either way, I think everyone can agree that in most places conservation has been overrun by loopholers and poachers. We literally need more people out in boats trying to stop things like that if we do actually want our grandchildren to be able to catch a salmon, see a whale etc. If you see people taking illegal fish and game YELL AT EM, make a damn scene, get the authorities involved etc.
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Where I live (s. Louisiana), game and fish laws are VERY successful. Wildlife management is fair and effective. Various populations have been threatened and come back in my lifetime. And most of the money required to make that happen comes from the sportsmen who use and care most about the resources, not the general population. About as good as it can get I think.
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All the socio political commentary aside,laws don't mean spit if they are not abided by or are gotten around....That's what I think David R was getting at as the whalers and mega fishers pretty much do whatever they want on the high seas and there is no one in place to patrol these areas and keep them in line.....Just how many whales do you need for scientific research?
I don't disagree with you, and in the vast majority of cases I have a similar contempt for people who disregard the law. However, in certain cases such as this, I have no problem with people like she shepherd going beyond the law prevent/reduce the slaughter of whales, in the same way I have no problem with someone beating/killing a rapist/pedo they catch in the act. In my mind there is absolutely no justification for whaling, if it really is for scientific research then stop selling the meat from it and keep it strictly scientific, then we'll see how worth-while they consider the "research" if they can't make a buck out of it. There is no need for anyone to eat whale meat, it is a perfect example of mankind's greed and selfishness. There isn't going to be a famine in Japan if they stopped hunting whales tomorrow.
Very good point, that is something I hadn't considered! It's hardly sustainable if you're simply raping the food-chain at a different level.
I definitely agree, and what makes it even sadder is that there are still a lot of 20-30 odd year old people who think its perfectly fine to eat it...
Damn shame really, since it really has become a race between will people wake up in time, or will the sharks die out...
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