the project....
- Thread starter necrocanis
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Somthin alot smaller could be striped raphael x syn. Decorus, notatus, alberti, eupterus, or greshoffi
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I hate hybrids generally with the fire of 10k suns... But I do own a rtcxtsn hybrid so I must admit to being a big fat hypocrite when it comes to catfish... Must say though I am interested in breeding/genetics so I'm curiouse as to how "outside" the box you can get yet still produce viable offspring. At least these fish would be almost impossible ( lets face it nature always finds a way so I never say never ) to produce naturally ( therefore unless human intervention would not hybridize and pollute the natural bloodlines)
Work your magic! and of course post pics of the parents once you decide what your going to go with!
Work your magic! and of course post pics of the parents once you decide what your going to go with!
Yes studies that I have found on hybrid catfish suggests that going outside the genus reduces fertility by about 50% if I remember correctly. It's roughly 75% within the genus, but F2 and F3 offspring usually develop undesirable traits so they have to produce them from parent species every time. If you go outside the family within catfish the fertility goes way down along with number of offspring produced. Survival would be really low in something like the RTC x Paroons that were around. Those may have been produced using single sperm injection, but this is so expensive and extremely difficult to do in catfish that I am not sure anyone would do that. They would lose money almost no matter what they sold the fish for. I don't really care how fertile the hybrids are, but I do care that I could also help scientists out with some other things. 
I will be donating some of the offspring along the way for research by scientists who are curious about hybrid vigor. I have to make sure to mix sexes both ways because the hybrid created is two totally different hybrids within the same two species crossing. One will be inferior usually while the other one may be superior. Not that it's better than the parental species just accelerated growth, and resistance to illness. My RTC x TSN seemed indestructible. lol.
I will be donating some of the offspring along the way for research by scientists who are curious about hybrid vigor. I have to make sure to mix sexes both ways because the hybrid created is two totally different hybrids within the same two species crossing. One will be inferior usually while the other one may be superior. Not that it's better than the parental species just accelerated growth, and resistance to illness. My RTC x TSN seemed indestructible. lol. acharaXvulture would be interesting and its not to absurd I don't think
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Would make a nice hybrid, but a lil pricey for start up costs on the first one. Want to use them both in future hybrids for sure though. Have to get this off the ground relatively cheap. Costs are going to go into setups, and everything else needed mainly. That's why I need readily available fish that I can get and raise up fairly quickly.
Costs are going to go into setups, and everything else needed mainly. That's why I need readily available fish that I can get and raise up fairly quickly.
So since it will provide me with relatively cheap brood stock I am planning a trip north of here to the Sun River. I have fished it many times when I lived in great falls. I can get fish pretty much just for the price of gas, food, and bait. and should be fun. My choices would be stone cats Notorus flavus, and Yellow, or brown bullheads. Rather use the bullheads. I know from experience they grow fast and acclimate well to aquarium settings. The Stonecats are a lil harder. Also the larger size of the bullheads will come in handy when I get ready for striping the eggs and sperm. I may use stonecats in the future, but for now I have it in my mind that I will use the bullheads which are way easy for me to get with a 2.5hr drive that is and probably camping out over night with some battery operated aireators. I just need 6 to ease my mind. I can also sex bullheads on the spot and cull it down to just 4 females and 2 males. If I need more for some reason I can just make another trip before winter sets in again. So that takes care of species one of our hybrid. Now time for species two. This will be more difficult as I have no way to get catfish unless I have them shipped in. You don't know how tempting it is to do RTC in this hybrid since it is way cheap, very hardy, grows fast, and can be ordered in bulk. Trouble is sexing, and maturation of 2-3 years. Then again I will have to raise any species I get for years. So unless I can get my hands on 6 mature individuals from a species this may be tough. Might have to go with the suncats for the first try and also inject my raphael so that I have another individual just in case. Meanwhile purchase some fish for the second round and start raising them. For everything to go better my roomate needs to hurry up and move out. lol. anyone want to send anonymous hate mail???
and should be fun. My choices would be stone cats Notorus flavus, and Yellow, or brown bullheads. Rather use the bullheads. I know from experience they grow fast and acclimate well to aquarium settings. The Stonecats are a lil harder. Also the larger size of the bullheads will come in handy when I get ready for striping the eggs and sperm. I may use stonecats in the future, but for now I have it in my mind that I will use the bullheads which are way easy for me to get with a 2.5hr drive that is and probably camping out over night with some battery operated aireators. I just need 6 to ease my mind. I can also sex bullheads on the spot and cull it down to just 4 females and 2 males. If I need more for some reason I can just make another trip before winter sets in again. So that takes care of species one of our hybrid. Now time for species two. This will be more difficult as I have no way to get catfish unless I have them shipped in. You don't know how tempting it is to do RTC in this hybrid since it is way cheap, very hardy, grows fast, and can be ordered in bulk. Trouble is sexing, and maturation of 2-3 years. Then again I will have to raise any species I get for years. So unless I can get my hands on 6 mature individuals from a species this may be tough. Might have to go with the suncats for the first try and also inject my raphael so that I have another individual just in case. Meanwhile purchase some fish for the second round and start raising them. For everything to go better my roomate needs to hurry up and move out. lol. anyone want to send anonymous hate mail???
I alos want to be origional. Cc x bh been done already several times. I have all the literature on it which will help.
I was thinking with the sun x bull hybrid the % of sucessfully raising offspring to adulthood would be lower than some other closer combinations (as a first attempt). However, since they fill a similar nich in they're respective ranges and there morphology is similar the viability of hybridization is certantly within the relem of possibilty. I think if your going to push the envelope this is actually a good start. Another good candadate albeit difficlut for you to come across would be a White Catfish x Sun Cat the White cat always reminded me of a naturally occuring Bull x CC hybrid whos morphology is even closer to that of a Sun Cat. At any rate for whatever it's worth, I think you are on the right track with this and think your chance of sucess is high. I'm looking foward to getting a nice hybrid cat from you down the road.
I agree with the white catfish. I may have a source for them, but not likely to get enough of them to use in this project yet. I may down the road contact a hatchery on the east coast and see if they will sell me a small batch then go pick it up. Like 100 pieces or something. Then sell off some to help with expense. Keep about 20 for the project. I like your thinking. There is well established farming of both bullheads and sun catfish so I think we have our first candidates. I will just use my suncats for this one and go get some bullheads. There is still much to do . I need to encourage my roomate to move and then also create a mini hatchery with hatching troughs, ect. Of course this will all be ghetto necro style but should work fine for starters. I am not in any way saying that I will succeed, but I have to give it a go so I can learn and develop better techniques and get this off the ground. Of course if it works I will be selling some to MFK, but I figure this first batch will likely have a large failure rate til I learn what I am doing a bit better. I'm going to take ever precaution though. I predict that next fall will be when I make this first attempt if I harvest adults of the bullheads this summer. Maybe get a few more grown suncats from members on here if they don't want them....
I like your thinking. There is well established farming of both bullheads and sun catfish so I think we have our first candidates. I will just use my suncats for this one and go get some bullheads. There is still much to do . I need to encourage my roomate to move and then also create a mini hatchery with hatching troughs, ect. Of course this will all be ghetto necro style but should work fine for starters. I am not in any way saying that I will succeed, but I have to give it a go so I can learn and develop better techniques and get this off the ground. Of course if it works I will be selling some to MFK, but I figure this first batch will likely have a large failure rate til I learn what I am doing a bit better. I'm going to take ever precaution though. I predict that next fall will be when I make this first attempt if I harvest adults of the bullheads this summer. Maybe get a few more grown suncats from members on here if they don't want them....