Tigrinus Catfish in 180?

[MonsterMinis]

I don't feed any of my fish MP/shrimp for a few reasons that the Tig owners may find.. aggreeable/conclusioned. I do not own a Tig, but eventually would like too, and this thread pretty much decided me against Shrimp/MP.

MP/Shrimp in the US is usually pre-frozen and/or tossed with lovely preservatives. True that you can find "safe" shrimp.. and I have.. but I have had similar issues with feeding shrimp to my fire eels. Krill seems to be the only exception. and even then it's fed spareingly.

already brought up... shrimp/MP are usually of the SW variety. and besides the salt content.. SW and FW fish have different protein/fat ratios as I'de surmize iodine, and other vit/min content. There have been a few large spiney eel deaths due to "unexplained" phenomenon by very knowledgeable hobbyists. Shrimp/MP are always included in large part to the diets of these fish. I've been suspicious for a few years now as to the true "benefit" of feeding shrimp/mp.

In moderation I doubt shrimp/mp are overly harmful.. but imo and from other sources I'm not convinced shrimp are the wonderfood everyone claims them to be. At least not to species that would have it in their diets in the wild.

RD I'm not sure why your argueing that feeding a singularly "set" diet to a fish verses pellets or a more varied diet is indeed healthy for these fish.


BTW I did own a TSN for awhile.. and grew it from 3"-12" in approx 3 monthes.. the few times I tried feeding it shrimp it spat them out.. but hoovered feeders, and started takeing hikari sinking pellets when I re-homed it. Every time I've tried shrimp i've had so-so results. the only fish I owned that would readily take shrimp was my Oscar. everything else prefers Live/frozen fw or NLS pellets.

 

[RD.]

RD I'm not sure why your argueing that feeding a singularly "set" diet to a fish verses pellets or a more varied diet is indeed healthy for these fish.

I never said that, nor would I. Not too sure how you got that out of this discussion? I feed NLS exclusively, and have for many years. Having said there are times when I use prawns &/or bloodworms for training purposes.


123456 ........ I wasn't trying to put a negative spin on anything that you did or said, I was simply attempting to put your comments (here & elsewhere) in some form of chronological order to better understand what actually took place. I don't think that you did anything wrong, nor was I critiquing you.

Sorry if you have taken my comment in that manner, there was no disrespect meant.

My intention was to show that there may be other reasons why your fish died a sudden death. That doesn't mean that there is, I honestly have no idea but at least I was willing entertain other scenarios beyond just the high sodium content theory. (whiich IMO is a non issue)

With regards to shrimp/prawns in general, it may very well be the "type" of shrimp being fed, vs all shrimp/prawns being bad. I touched upon this previously with regards to supermarket shrimp, and also previously stated that yes it is possible that some types of shrimp/prawns could cause more problems than others.

There is lots of sea food that is sold for human consumption that I would never feed to a fish. MonsterMinis just touched upon this as well. Many forms of shrimp are sold for human consumption that have added sodium, added preservatives, and god only knows what else. One cannot bundle ALL shrimp & prawns into the same neat little nutrient package, it's not that simplistic.

Personally I have only ever fed Penaeus monodon aka Tiger Prawns, and only in a raw state. Ditto to the person whose 24" tig I posted earlier in this discussion. And T1, these are the exact same MP that one can buy in a market in SE Asia, and are the most popular frozen food used by hobbyists in SE Asia. Millions of hobbyists feed MP with no issues, and have since this hobby began.

Again, I don't own a crystal ball or have magical powers
so exactly what "type" of shrimp each of these people on MFK who have had issues fed to their tigs is beyond me.

For those that are concerned about feeding MP to their fish, the answer is simple, don't. But none of what I have read thus far equates to ALL forms of shrimp/prawns being the kiss of death to your fish.

 

[T1KARMANN]

RD maybe I was a moron when my 4 tigs die but I was a good enough fishkeeper to keep many rays alive and breed them

Now you are stating that some types of MP maybe bad and others may be fine so unless you can look in that little crystal ball you keep saying you don't have and tell us all which MP are safe and which are not don't you think it would be a better and safer idea to advice people not to feed MP until they get past 12 inch when they are of a stronger size

 

[RD.]

I never said that you were a moron.

The bizzarre part of all of this is there are more than just a few odd people that have raised tigs on MP, some of them MP exclusively. Check this link out T1. Ring any bells?

http://www.arofanatics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=383407

You constantly contradict yourself, and this is part of what's been so confusing for me. At that point (2009) you had convinced yourself that sodium content in MP was the problem, yet you still continued to feed at least some MP to your tigs? If as you say this excess sodium is a problem with tigs, then why feed MP at all?

Also, how can one possibly raise a tig on an exclusive diet of MP from 3" to 8-10" (approx 6-8 months?), only to have them suddenly die from that same food source at 8-10"? Couldn't that be a digestibility issue from overfeeding, and not just what you fed, but how much?

Others chimed in & disagreed with you in that discussion, and stated they feed MP exclusively. One of them for 3.5 yrs, with his tig being 20" when he sold it.

In my mind either MP is bad for this species & for whatever reason they cannot assimilate that food, or they can. Period.


Seeing as one can take a 3" tig to 10", on nothing but MP, obviously it's not a digestion issue, or the tig wouldn't grow & would show problems early on. It wouldn't just wake up one day, spit the MP, and then die from MP poisoning. That makes absolutely no sense to me.

What does make sense is that there could be a number of other factors at play when a tig dies while being fed MP, none of which have anything to do with MP. MP is most certainly not a nutritionally complete food, for any fish, especially those kept in stressful conditions such as large comm tanks. But I do not believe that it deserves the bad press that you are giving it.

Personally I consider Penaeus monodon aka Tiger Prawns to be a safe food for tigs, but if it was me I would get them onto a quality pellet food ASAP. Far better balance of nutrients, and never once had any issues with the pellets that I feed with any species of fish, marine or freshwater, and that includes tigrinus.

I'm not in any way advocating feeding shrimp/prawns to tigrinus, only that many others have with zero issues, including very young tigs. From that I can only conclude that not all MP will cause issues with tigs, and those that may have had issues with tigs may have had other underlying problems that at the time they weren't aware of.


Or this has all just been a bad dream ............



Either way I'm done playing merry-go-round, I suspect that at this point people can draw their own conclusions & do as they personally see fit.


Cheers

 

[T1KARMANN]

At the size of 12 inch tigs seam to be able to deal with what ever they don't get on with in MP when small

If you feed some small tigs below 12 inch just on MP they seam to swell up and develop a lump just in front of the dorsal fin once this lump starts to show then the tig will be in trouble soon

My tig is at least 24 inch now and I don't direct any type of food at him he grabs what he can pellets super worms or the odd bit of MP that the other fish miss

With small tigs maybe the odd bit of MP may not harm it but that wouldn't be the main and only food I fed to a small tig my main food would be pellets as it is with any fish I keep

 

[taksan]

Really ? Did I say that ?
I don't think I said that at all
I said "MOST" !!!!
DO NOT PUT WORDS INTO MY MOUTH !
AND DO NOT SELECTIVELY QUOTE ME OUT OF CONTEXT !

For the record Richard is one of the most experienced fish keepers in the country and has owned and grown out more rare and expensive fish then most people here put together !

Then I said that even experienced non morons lose tigs ... and the common denominator is feeding shrimp.
Therefore I surmised that wise fish keepers wouldn't feed shrimp.

If you have trouble understanding that post perhaps you can get someone to explain it to you rather then quoting me out of context.

Just because you know some arrow fanatics or whatever that managed to feed shrimp (or MP ...whatever you call it wherever your from) and their fish didn't die means nothing to me. I have seen too many die that were fed shrimp and most lot survive that weren't for it to be a coincidence.

Some shrimp is safer then others ? Types of Shrimp ? Who cares about that ? Nobody knows what safe or not so therefore its safer not to feed any shrimp.

Your selective quoting off another website and assumptions do not serve your arguments well.

Your constant linking to arrow fanatics is annoying ...I don't care about threads on arrow fanatics ... this is MFK !

Go back to your your shrimp .... or whatever it is your into

I'm finished here ....

But hey, according to Taksan both you & T1 must be morons, because the only way that tigs die in captivity is due to morons that don't have a clue.

 

[T1KARMANN]

It's like parking a car in a restricted area some won't get towed away and others will it all depends if you want to take that risk as with shrimp some tigs may die from it others may not it all depends if you want to take that risk

 

[jlnguyen74]

If you feed some small tigs below 12 inch just on MP they seam to swell up and develop a lump just in front of the dorsal fin once this lump starts to show then the tig will be in trouble soon

From my experience, the lump you mentioned was not from MP. It's from lack of oxygen, poor water condition. It happened to me and a few member here, most of the time is during summer, when our tank water temp can raise as high as 98F without a heater in the tank. As we all know, high temp = low dissolved oxygen.

Anyone who keeps tig knows that the bigger they get, the more sensitive they are. Big tig requires high flow, a lot of dissolved oxygen

Don't blame the MP... Some MP, especially the one in bag, comes with salt and preservative chemical. Fish doesn't digest those well... Also, there could be mistake made by fish keeper when defrosting shrimp, and it get contaminated before feeding it to your fish, end up poison the fish. If you want to blame, blame the fish keeper himself or herself.

 

[Spiritofthesoul]

I wonder how pissed the OP is that his thread got derailed into an arguement.

 

[jlnguyen74]

I wonder how pissed the OP is that his thread got derailed into an arguement.

How would he be pissed when he can learn a lot of information regarding what to feed his new tig? How could it be a derail, when it was discussing on what to feed a tig?