Utah to use execution by firing squad on Friday

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fallin49er;4215209; said:
So you are saying all of these violent crimes can be avoided if we just "educate" these people that have the tendancy to want to commit violent crimes? How does one predeterimine and then diagnose a flaw in a person's ability to make a morally correct decision if the opportunity to make that decision has yet to be presented to that individual? Just curious...
you cant any method used would require technics against the persons human rights,

i have seen this sorta twisted everyone can be helped thinking alot my dad was a cop and my mother fosters.

my fav example was a lesbian couple who had a as they put it moody baby so one day when he would not stop crying they dipped his dummy in methadone.
the baby died and had to be resusatated while the couple stood n watched unconcerned.
by the everyone can be helped logic these people should be helped for almost murdering a baby

next example baby p he was abused in ways we cant even imagen broken ribs internal bleeding.
but just like this monster who planned his killings these parents coverd his bruises in food so the carers would not see it. This is not a result of not knowing right from wrong these people are monsters
i see a second chance as to much but really a third destroyed family ? is it really needed
 
Am I understanding wrong or are you kind of sticking up for him (people w/violent crimes etc...) cause you put yourself in his catagory/thinking? (knifegill)

I am having a lot of trouble understanding your thoughts.

I had a very violent upbringing and acted out with what I was shown, I seeked negativity and thrived in it (I'm sure many others here too). The difference between me and him is I learned from my mistake... It only took 1 time.

His long wrap sheet goes in one direction, bigger and more violent crimes.

I think he had plenty of chances to reach out and ask for help... Before the first murder.
 
knifegill;4215139; said:
That's almost the exact sentence I was about to type. But with different, more helpful parameters concerning consequences. We both want a better society. In yours, it's okay for people to be killed for killing, thereby doubling deaths. In mine, it is okay for people to be treated for what leads them to kill, thereby halving deaths. If you went int a junior high school and explained homicidal thinking to the students and gave out a card with a number they could call to GET HELP for the rage and murder fantasies playing out in their heads, they could be helped before anyone is hurt. It's okay to get help for almost any illness these days. But nobody is okay admitting they think about killing people, planning it, mentally choosing weapons, etc. If it were okay to talk about it, people could get help.


All these comments I'm seeing about what he was convicted of, what he plead to, etc. are beside the point. They are circumstantial. What's key here is the idea of not killing people who are confused, angry and distorted.
I agree with some of your points, but not with your solution. I doubt that many murderers/future murderers would be interested in getting help. IMO, there is no perfect solution, but the death penalty is extremely hypocritical and cruel (to both the murderer and the executioner). Anything is better than the death penalty IMO.

And to those supporting the death penalty: The definition of murder is when one person intentionally kills another person. So if a murderer is executed, then doesn't that make the executioner(s) a murderer also? And if the executioner is a murderer then they should be killed too, right? Then what happens to the person who executes him? The whole idea of the death penalty is completely hypocritical and destructive and I feel sorry for those who are so ignorant they can't see that.
 
Aaaah! Step away for a second and I'm two pages behind!

Short answers for me:
you cant any method used would require technics against the persons human rights,

i have seen this sorta twisted everyone can be helped thinking alot my dad was a cop and my mother fosters.

my fav example was a lesbian couple who had a as they put it moody baby so one day when he would not stop crying they dipped his dummy in methadone.
the baby died and had to be resusatated while the couple stood n watched unconcerned.
by the everyone can be helped logic these people should be helped for almost murdering a baby

next example baby p he was abused in ways we cant even imagen broken ribs internal bleeding.
but just like this monster who planned his killings these parents coverd his bruises in food so the carers would not see it. This is not a result of not knowing right from wrong these people are monsters
i see a second chance as to much but really a third destroyed family ? is it really needed
Yes, these people acted like monsters. Killing them won't bring back the babies. These killers, abusers, rapers, etc. are made of the same building blocks we are. They're just put together wrong. THey put themselves as top priority and ignore or enjoy the suffering they cause. This can be corrected. I don't see why that's so hard to accept.

So you are saying all of these violent crimes can be avoided if we just "educate" these people that have the tendancy to want to commit violent crimes? How does one predeterimine and then diagnose a flaw in a person's ability to make a morally correct decision if the opportunity to make that decision has yet to be presented to that individual? Just curious...
Yes, yes! That's it! That's what I'm saying. For predetermining, there are sociological predispositions, potential genetic predispositions, and even more factors that allow efforts to be focused on the most troubled groups. The educators, parents and other 'people builders' simply need to know what to watch for, types of behavior that indicate the child in question is trapped in their thoughts, depressed, etc. Then they find the right kind of counselor who can train the child through journaling and involvement in personality-strengthening activities, etc. You see what I mean. And it almost already happens, except that it's currently missing the people who might need it most.


you really have a warped view of the world dont you ?
you keep making out these monsters are not responsible for what they do ,sure we should be treating these people but premedatated murder is not the same as killing in the heat of emotion.
these people plan this murder they are mentaly ill , can they be cured ? no just like the church tried to cure homosexuality it is not possible it is not a choice.
these people are animals all we can do is put them down for are own safety.

it disturbs me that you care so little for your wife you would put her in danger by having a monster like him in your house.

people who say an eye for an eye are most definatly wrong
if someone raped your daughter and the father killed him does he deserve to die ? i think not

i always find it funny how people debate death for one monster for years while heroic people in the army die every year but we hardy give it a second thought, Why does a monster deserve more rights that someone protecting there family and country?
These comments are so odd and off-base that I don't think I need to address them, but I'll touch lightly anyway. Yes, a killer is responsible and accountable for what they have done. And they should pay. By paying. Not by dying.
If the mentally ill can't be cured, why does it happen every day?
Are you calling homosexuality a mental illness?!
If people can be animals, where are your slaves?

people who say an eye for an eye are most definatly wrong
if someone raped your daughter and the father killed him does he deserve to die ? i think not
This sentence is in opposition to everything else you are saying.

How is killing people heroic? And why would killers have rights? They'd have decades fo proving themselves and always be branded as killers. I'm saying 'don't kill them' not 'bow down to them'.
 
West1;4215252; said:
Am I understanding wrong or are you kind of sticking up for him (people w/violent crimes etc...) cause you put yourself in his catagory/thinking? (knifegill)

I am having a lot of trouble understanding your thoughts.

I had a very violent upbringing and acted out with what I was shown, I seeked negativity and thrived in it (I'm sure many others here too). The difference between me and him is I learned from my mistake... It only took 1 time.

His long wrap sheet goes in one direction, bigger and more violent crimes.

I think he had plenty of chances to reach out and ask for help... Before the first murder.
I agree with you, but that doesn't justify the death penalty.
 
I was just remembering the thread about the japanese people killing whales and how mad I was...
 
knifegill;4215270; said:
Yes, yes! That's it! That's what I'm saying. For predetermining, there are sociological predispositions, potential genetic predispositions, and even more factors that allow efforts to be focused on the most troubled groups. The educators, parents and other 'people builders' simply need to know what to watch for, types of behavior that indicate the child in question is trapped in their thoughts, depressed, etc. Then they find the right kind of counselor who can train the child through journaling and involvement in personality-strengthening activities, etc. You see what I mean. And it almost already happens, except that it's currently missing the people who might need it most.

So since my dad hit my mom is it okay to say I seen it growing up... thats why I did it (all ie!!!)? We have to stand up and break the chains... know when to say "No, I will not be a victim of violence", I did. Do I still struggle, Oh yeah... but no crime I have done was plotted for murder.

drg, I agree with you on your answer and both ends are wrong. I would rather live in a world with 1 less known murderer in this world. No we wont catch them all.
To me it makes sense financially and mentally, to me. Could be cheaper to give up on a cold blooded killer since he gave up on trying.

The hard part is the ones who signed and are firing the gun (Firing squad).

Man, im torn but at the same time set in my head because of "what if..."
 
I am in favor of the death penalty for not just murder ,
for the folowing as well
rapist
pedophiles
murderers
and any like these
sure we can try to rehab them but there isnt any guarantee they wont destroy a life again unless there dead , that's the only 100% way . sure a few can be rehabbed and lead productive lives but why put the innocent public at risk? to justify someones sense of morality? sorry but i don't ever want to risk my family to such people.

and yes i do wish child rapist got the death penalty as well, they pretty much destroy a child's life and may lead to said children committing like crimes in the future.

bottom line why risk the public just to fill some sense of morality?
 
ozz465;4215306; said:
I am in favor of the death penalty for not just murder ,
for the folowing as well
rapist
pedophiles
murderers
and any like these
sure we can try to rehab them but there isnt any guarantee they wont destroy a life again unless there dead , that's the only 100% way . sure a few can be rehabbed and lead productive lives but why put the innocent public at risk? to justify someones sense of morality? sorry but i don't ever want to risk my family to such people.

and yes i do wish child rapist got the death penalty as well, they pretty much destroy a child's life and may lead to said children committing like crimes in the future.

bottom line why risk the public just to fill some sense of morality?

Keep your day job Oozer:ROFL:.
I hear ya though. Rappist are better off in jail for 50+years in general population. Thats worst than the death penalty IMO:D... Ouch:cry::nutkick:
 
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