Went To Alligator Alley

[Louie]

I know that place I told you about has lots of illegal fishing as even the smallest bass are caught and kept many times with cast nets and they couldnt care less.

I never mentioned non natives to them as than I dont have a case but have seen lots of bass and 2 protected grass carp caught (net) and kept.

The place has(had) so much that it didnt make a dent but doubt thats still the case but they still wont act.

You get back frtom them a standard "form" type reply but they never send anyone .

Its this mind set that these fish are harmless that has got everything so screwed up. Oh these Asian carp are harmless lets put them in our pond to keep the weeds down. Know years down the road these carp are on the verge of making it into lake MI. No matter if you can see it or not these nonnative fish are adapting and harming the ecosystem filling the area of other species that belong there. After all if these nonnative species were meant to be there then they would have evolved there. But instead humans have been moving species around for our own gain and not for the environment/nature. Now Michigan is another state where dumb stocking and messing around were done. Salmon should have never been stocked in the great lakes and the channel (Saint Lawrence seaway) that was dug to the Atlantic ocean never should have been dug. But whats been done is done. We can only look to the future to stop events like this from occurring. I for see these Asian carp making it into the great lake and devastating the salmon fisheries. Then the DNRs around the lakes will stock stripped bass to help control and eat them and promote a new fisherie.[/QUOTE]


The grass carp I dont find harmless and only fish I have seen bulldoze native sunfish breeding crater sites but they were introduced by the state and PROTECTED by the state .

The cichlids are harmless .

"After all if these nonnative species were meant to be there then they would have evolved there"

Keep in mind much of the cichlids are mostly found in these MAN MADE canals which are hot as hell 6 months a year. By me its all man made shallow 6 ft deep max canals .
NO native can live in these canals during summer,etc and these canals for most part were empty niches that cichlids found a home in.

Even the cichlids by Glades are nothing compared to the native chain of command in those waters .
Mayans,Talipia mostly eat algae ,sludge junk . The rest take Mayans and mosquito fish.

Ofcourse they wont shy way from a native sunfish but as a while their impact is tiny.

I think the negative impact will actually be if they are gone as lots natives eat them . PB again introduced by Florida will now concentrate on sunfish and small lmb.

I am not a cichlid hired lobbyiest and no expert but the older fishermen who know the fish and waters who I have met in Florida have changed my mind about the cichlids .
Granted I also like catching them

 

[MultispeciesTamer]

Its this mind set that these fish are harmless that has got everything so screwed up. Oh these Asian carp are harmless lets put them in our pond to keep the weeds down. Know years down the road these carp are on the verge of making it into lake MI. No matter if you can see it or not these nonnative fish are adapting and harming the ecosystem filling the area of other species that belong there. After all if these nonnative species were meant to be there then they would have evolved there. But instead humans have been moving species around for our own gain and not for the environment/nature. Now Michigan is another state where dumb stocking and messing around were done. Salmon should have never been stocked in the great lakes and the channel (Saint Lawrence seaway) that was dug to the Atlantic ocean never should have been dug. But whats been done is done. We can only look to the future to stop events like this from occurring. I for see these Asian carp making it into the great lake and devastating the salmon fisheries. Then the DNRs around the lakes will stock stripped bass to help control and eat them and promote a new fisherie.

The grass carp I dont find harmless and only fish I have seen bulldoze native sunfish breeding crater sites but they were introduced by the state and PROTECTED by the state .

The cichlids are harmless .

"After all if these nonnative species were meant to be there then they would have evolved there"

Keep in mind much of the cichlids are mostly found in these MAN MADE canals which are hot as hell 6 months a year. By me its all man made shallow 6 ft deep max canals .
NO native can live in these canals during summer,etc and these canals for most part were empty niches that cichlids found a home in.

Even the cichlids by Glades are nothing compared to the native chain of command in those waters .
Mayans,Talipia mostly eat algae ,sludge junk . The rest take Mayans and mosquito fish.

Ofcourse they wont shy way from a native sunfish but as a while their impact is tiny.

I think the negative impact will actually be if they are gone as lots natives eat them . PB again introduced by Florida will now concentrate on sunfish and small lmb.

I am not a cichlid hired lobbyiest and no expert but the older fishermen who know the fish and waters who I have met in Florida have changed my mind about the cichlids .
Granted I also like catching them [/QUOTE]
True these channels are man made but what about all the little top minnows and flag fish, etc. that can live in these hot habitats and the other small bass species and sunfish, and pygmy sunfish that call your state home? My guess is the only reason these nonnatives are doing so well in the channels and not the other species is that these nonnatives eat alot of the native fry keeping there numbers down. With them gone some what Iam sure more natives will be popping up in these channels if they are given the chance.

Also on I side note I to like catch the nonnative salmon and trout of lake MI, just as you like catching all the little exotic species. But that dosnt change the fact they dont belong.

 

[Robbwilder]

When you dipnet. Your able to walk in the canal, you dont sink in that mud?

I would be to nervous to try that as you never know what could be there. Though it does sound interesting.

No I use a long handle and hit the shoreline and usually try to scoop up the weeds. I get mollies, sals, Mayan usually but I have been hitting the same spots. Havnt though since September. With all the deaths I'm going to leave it alone till summer

 

[MultispeciesTamer]

I have never seen a snook but if the state of Florida closed snook fishing and it was on news than I suspect it was massive die off as the FWC isnt known for protecting anything nor managing much.

Lots come here for fishing its loss revenue for many so it has to be 1000+ or whatever it was that it requires closing snook season. It wasnt just a few. One place alone was 400 snook.

It was a freak cold spell that lasted long by Florida standards hit record lows and caused massive die offs of not just cichlids (my friends lol) but brutal on the natives.

http://www.miamiherald.com/573/story/1432724.html

"day after day, dead fish. Floating in the marina at Flamingo in Everglades National Park alone he counted more than 400 snook and 400 tarpon.
``I was so shook up, I couldn't sleep,'' said Frezza, an ecologist for Audubon of Florida and an expert flats fisherman. ``Millions and millions of pilchards, threadfin herring, mullet. Ladyfish took it really bad. Whitewater Bay is just a graveyard.''

also 1000 was just a rough number that I thought of. but unlike the lake St. Claire die witch is just a small lake compared to the size of the ocean. Now that I think about it would have to be a massive number of snook and tarpon to have a devastating effect. say 100,000+ fish of each species. But again this is just a rough number as I don't know the pre-existing populations of these fish. But one fact that should hold true is that the fish farther out should have faired better and most likly only the near shore fish were effected very drasticly. From watching Lake MI and how it holds its temps for a while I would think that the farther out into the ocean you went the less the temps changed.

 

[CHOMPERS]

Wow that is neat. I dont know anything about them. Are they native?



You were saying you didnt see much die off by you which is great. Still nothing?

I am glad lots areas where fish lived on as by me it was terrible.

Yep, the stingrays in the St. Johns River are Atlantic Stingrays that have adapted to fresh water.

We have Common Plecos here which seem pretty hardy. When it gets cold, they huddle together by the dozens and stick their noses out of the water. It's a weird behavior.

Last Friday at the fishing hole, I caught a talapia that had suffered badly fromt he cold. He was on the boat ramp in the shallowest part (trying to warm up). When I threw the net on him, he barely tried to swim away. He had almost no kick when I tossed him up on the bank.

Yesterday, I caught another talapia that was almost in the same condition. It was swimming slowly at the surface and didn't try to get away. He is on the plate next to me and is quite delicious.

 

[Louie]

Yep, the stingrays in the St. Johns River are Atlantic Stingrays that have adapted to fresh water.

We have Common Plecos here which seem pretty hardy. When it gets cold, they huddle together by the dozens and stick their noses out of the water. It's a weird behavior.

Last Friday at the fishing hole, I caught a talapia that had suffered badly fromt he cold. He was on the boat ramp in the shallowest part (trying to warm up). When I threw the net on him, he barely tried to swim away. He had almost no kick when I tossed him up on the bank.

Yesterday, I caught another talapia that was almost in the same condition. It was swimming slowly at the surface and didn't try to get away. He is on the plate next to me and is quite delicious.

Great pics. I have heard that river mentioned before but wasnt sure where it was. Its like 4 hours north of me.

I had no idea rays could adapt to fresh thats amazing. Must be nice to see them swimming.

I am glad that river is fairly far from Miami or not 1 ray would be left .

The mngmt of rivers up north in the state are supposed to be pretty good.

 

[Louie]

No I use a long handle and hit the shoreline and usually try to scoop up the weeds. I get mollies, sals, Mayan usually but I have been hitting the same spots. Havnt though since September. With all the deaths I'm going to leave it alone till summer

Okay. Yes I picked up a net with long handle also while back after you mentioned it.

Have you ever caught any African cichlids like zebras or yellow coves?

I have seen zebras by horse country canals but limited areas.

 

[Robbwilder]

Okay. Yes I picked up a net with long handle also while back after you mentioned it.

Have you ever caught any African cichlids like zebras or yellow coves?

I have seen zebras by horse country canals but limited areas.

I wish. Ive looked and never found any. ive even looked among the dead to see if I see anything different but nothing...

 

[oscarcrazy]

also 1000 was just a rough number that I thought of. but unlike the lake St. Claire die witch is just a small lake compared to the size of the ocean. Now that I think about it would have to be a massive number of snook and tarpon to have a devastating effect. say 100,000+ fish of each species. But again this is just a rough number as I don't know the pre-existing populations of these fish. But one fact that should hold true is that the fish farther out should have faired better and most likly only the near shore fish were effected very drasticly. From watching Lake MI and how it holds its temps for a while I would think that the farther out into the ocean you went the less the temps changed.

Why are you arguing about things you don't really know much about? Did you know that both tarpon and snook rely heavily on the freshwater systems of florida when they are young? Did you know that millions of dollars of revenue will potenialy be lost due the die offs? You say non natives don't belong, yet you fish for salmon and trout. You say that even those don't belong, but your fishing for them helps ensure their future.

 

[armac]

Why are you arguing about things you don't really know much about? Did you know that both tarpon and snook rely heavily on the freshwater systems of florida when they are young? Did you know that millions of dollars of revenue will potenialy be lost due the die offs? You say non natives don't belong, yet you fish for salmon and trout. You say that even those don't belong, but your fishing for them helps ensure their future.

Just let him be, he thinks the cold only killed the weak fish. I tried to explain it to him, he does not understand.

You will not see me arguing about Michigan's fish, not my concern. But I lived in Southwest Florida for 30 years and the decimation of the snook population is a big concern for me. I still have friends who make their living on tourism, and a lot of that comes from the good fishing that had always abounded.

I have quit responding to the tamer, might not be a bad idea for all of us.