What does freedom mean to Americans?

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hamato_yoshii;1888723; said:
I'm still waiting for the facts on how many people are fooled by propoganda, but then again going by your last few posts it wouldn't matter if you did post them.

It is unfortunate how this has turned out especially with the recent revelations, but this actually speaks to my point about how whether you want to admit it or not, in this kind of debate your "facts" don't really matter. You can post all the "facts" you want about what the word America means but at the end of the day, it is still the term that the people of the US use to identify themselves, and it's not going to change, and really there is no reason to change it just because you don't like it. But see thats just it, this debate rests on the fact that you don't like it. Thats your opinion. So, no matter what you put down on these pages, it's your opinions vs. others, you can't declare a victor. Of course there is such a thing as doing it with class and gaining the respect of your opponent, but I don't really think thats even an issue, and thats too bad.


Not sure what you don't understand.
Maybe one day we can talk about propaganda, that might be interesting.
Or anything else you are interested in.
But for now this debate is over.

Facts are important Yoshi.
If anyone had checked my facts they would have shut me down at post #84, page 9.
You seem like a very nice and trusting person.
That's a good thing.
But not everyone in the world deserves your trust.
Not everyone is as nice as you.
There are bad people in the world.
People who lie and twist truth to convince you to do what they want.
Sometimes, that is very nearly the definition of some politicians.
Sure your government can only do what you tell them to.
Until they convince you to vote the way they want you to vote.
Governments lie.
Don't trust them just because they sound convincing.
Listen carefully to what they claim, and check for yourself if it is true.

I am sorry I played a little trick on you.
I don't want you to feel bad about this.
But when this started I didn't know you at all.
And I used you to make a point.
But it's a good point. It's important.
I hope we can be friends after this.
Because I have grown to like you.
I don't at all think you are dumb for believing anything I said.
Or for just believing that I believed it.
You are just a nice, respectful, patient, trusting person.
And just so you know, I was using your emotions to keep you upset and unfocused on the facts.
I'd be nice so we could be friends and you would be more likely to listen and accept my view.
And used strong emotional language to gain sympathy, or make you ashamed and question your position, or flatter your nation.
Then make you mad so you focused on being angry and not on the truth.
There are many tricks to manipulate people.
Politicians know all of them.

I do like you.
Too bad I had to play tricks.
But it's for your own good.
This is important.
 
Well thanks for the lesson professor, it's too bad that you take yourself so seriously, and also that you have elitist views. You are failing to accept what I'm telling you because it doesn't fit well in your plan. It didn't and doesn't matter to me what all of your "facts" were because this is an opinion based debate. Just because you put them up there doesn't make them relevant. You don't like us saying American because you think that it conveys an attitude of arrogance. THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I know you don't like hearing it, but we're not exactly having a global warming, or gas price debate here. It's about you not liking something that someone else said, that's the only "fact" needed.
You can try and weave your web of deceit and trickery to try and continue to elevate yourself to whatever position you are trying to achieve, but the only person your fooling is you. If you think I (or others) have never come across guys like you, your wrong. Or is that to hard to accept that you aren't the greatest debater of all time? Give me a break, you took this way to serious from the beginning, and continued it all the way through with your lengthy posts full of garbage. The reason why nobody pointed out your bad "facts" is because they didn't matter in the inherent value of this debate! The only person who thought they did was you. I don't dislike you at all Spank, but it sounds like you have to learn a hard lesson I once learned in debate. You aren't the only person who can think.
 
hamato_yoshii;1888916; said:
Well thanks for the lesson professor, it's too bad that you take yourself so seriously, and also that you have elitist views. You are failing to accept what I'm telling you because it doesn't fit well in your plan. It didn't and doesn't matter to me what all of your "facts" were because this is an opinion based debate. Just because you put them up there doesn't make them relevant. You don't like us saying American because you think that it conveys an attitude of arrogance. THAT IS YOUR OPINION. I know you don't like hearing it, but we're not exactly having a global warming, or gas price debate here. It's about you not liking something that someone else said, that's the only "fact" needed.
You can try and weave your web of deceit and trickery to try and continue to elevate yourself to whatever position you are trying to achieve, but the only person your fooling is you. If you think I (or others) have never come across guys like you, your wrong. Or is that to hard to accept that you aren't the greatest debater of all time? Give me a break, you took this way to serious from the beginning, and continued it all the way through with your lengthy posts full of garbage. The reason why nobody pointed out your bad "facts" is because they didn't matter in the inherent value of this debate! The only person who thought they did was you. I don't dislike you at all Spank, but it sounds like you have to learn a hard lesson I once learned in debate. You aren't the only person who can think.



Well you are a little upset right now.
That's ok.
In a few days when you calm down, think about this some more.


I do not care if you call yourself American.
I never did.
Not even a little.
I just used that lie to see who would check my facts.
I do not think I am elitist or better or smarter than you or anyone else.
That's not even close.

Later, when you aren't so mad, think about it some more.
Be mad at me forever.
But next time you vote, check the facts.



I have to go to work.
Talk to you latter.
If you want.
 
Spankbelly;1888973; said:
Well you are a little upset right now.
That's ok.
In a few days when you calm down, think about this some more.


I do not care if you call yourself American.
I never did.
Not even a little.
I just used that lie to see who would check my facts.
I do not think I am elitist or better or smarter than you or anyone else.
That's not even close.

Later, when you aren't so mad, think about it some more.
Be mad at me forever.
But next time you vote, check the facts.



I have to go to work.
Talk to you latter.
If you want.


Do me a favor, after work, take some time and read your posts, I know you were just playing the part before, but read your posts since you told us that you are an actor. Your tone hasn't changed. Take some time and see how you "speak" to people through written word, and see if maybe, just maybe you can see how me and others would comment on your arrogance. You are still refusing to accept what I'm telling you, and that's fine. If I put as much time and effort into this as you have (even if it is a lie) I would be upset to if I found out that my opponents weren't taking it as seriously as me. But understand that I've been in debates before, some won some lost, and I can recognize opinion based debates when I see them. It doesn't mean I don't partake, I do because they are fun as long as you don't take them too serious because they are just opinions. Your kinda like that guy that everyone knows where when you go to play pick-up basketball you throw elbows, and keep track of not only how many points you have but assists, rebounds, turnover ratio, and etc. These kinds of debates are pick-up games bro, you just happen to think that they are for the gold.
 
OK I'll think about that.
TTL
 
spank, your opinions are just making me more proud to be american than i think ive ever been.
maybe you should just come down and live in america since you're so interested in it's government and "brainwashed" citizens.
the thread was "what does freedom mean to americans?"
you have overrun this thread.. looking for debates and seemingly trying to prove how brainwashed and ignorant and cocky america is.
figures you see it like that, dont you know that we know that this is part of our reputation to outsiders? i think it may be out of jealousy that people think or say these things. it reminds me of gossip in a way.
the point is, there are millions of americans.. leading all kinds of different lives, thinking all kinds of different things. we are not stupid, we are not brainwashed. maybe some? who knows. there is some bad in america, but there is also a lot of good.
we are doing fine, and we really shouldnt care if people think we are a big, brainwashed, propaganda-filled 'we are better than you' nation. come on, really? america/americans shouldnt feel the need to prove to anybody else that we aren't what they think we are. we shouldnt feel like we need to make friends with everyone.
were fine as we are right now, we can improve how we want to on our own.
it seems to me like you are brainwashed against the U.S.
im surprised people havnt just tired of your 'debates' yet.
i don't really understand what youre trying to prove.
 
easydoesit;1889123; said:
spank, your opinions are just making me more proud to be american than i think ive ever been.
maybe you should just come down and live in america since you're so interested in it's government and "brainwashed" citizens.
the thread was "what does freedom mean to americans?"
you have overrun this thread.. looking for debates and seemingly trying to prove how brainwashed and ignorant and cocky america is.
figures you see it like that, dont you know that we know that this is part of our reputation to outsiders? i think it may be out of jealousy that people think or say these things. it reminds me of gossip in a way.
the point is, there are millions of americans.. leading all kinds of different lives, thinking all kinds of different things. we are not stupid, we are not brainwashed. maybe some? who knows. there is some bad in america, but there is also a lot of good.
we are doing fine, and we really shouldnt care if people think we are a big, brainwashed, propaganda-filled 'we are better than you' nation. come on, really? america/americans shouldnt feel the need to prove to anybody else that we aren't what they think we are. we shouldnt feel like we need to make friends with everyone.
were fine as we are right now, we can improve how we want to on our own.
it seems to me like you are brainwashed against the U.S.
im surprised people havnt just tired of your 'debates' yet.
i don't really understand what youre trying to prove.


Probably all true.
Except overrunning the thread. The OP said he was done with it and we should feel free to continue posting. And others have continued to post to me.
I'm really late now.
 
easydoesit;1889123; said:
spank, your opinions are just making me more proud to be american than i think ive ever been.
maybe you should just come down and live in america since you're so interested in it's government and "brainwashed" citizens.
the thread was "what does freedom mean to americans?"
you have overrun this thread.. looking for debates and seemingly trying to prove how brainwashed and ignorant and cocky america is.
figures you see it like that, dont you know that we know that this is part of our reputation to outsiders? i think it may be out of jealousy that people think or say these things. it reminds me of gossip in a way.
the point is, there are millions of americans.. leading all kinds of different lives, thinking all kinds of different things. we are not stupid, we are not brainwashed. maybe some? who knows. there is some bad in america, but there is also a lot of good.
we are doing fine, and we really shouldnt care if people think we are a big, brainwashed, propaganda-filled 'we are better than you' nation. come on, really? america/americans shouldnt feel the need to prove to anybody else that we aren't what they think we are. we shouldnt feel like we need to make friends with everyone.
were fine as we are right now, we can improve how we want to on our own.
it seems to me like you are brainwashed against the U.S.
im surprised people havnt just tired of your 'debates' yet.
i don't really understand what youre trying to prove.


Now that time allows I reread that and turns out I don't agree with all of it.
I am as surprised as you!


"spank, your opinions are just making me more proud to be american than i think ive ever been."

You're welcome.
Seriously.

"maybe you should just come down and live in america since you're so interested in it's government and "brainwashed" citizens."

I have considered it. Even as we speak. Maybe not permanently. But I would like to visit N.Y.C. just to see it for myself.
And Houston. We have counties larger than Texas, so I wonder what's the big deal?
And Florida. Canada doesn't have anything like the everglades. Well, we have a few thousand miles of muskeg, but few air boats and no alligators.
And Louisiana. I have no idea why I'd want to go to Louisiana, but I do. It just sounds cool. Lou ezz e' anna...mellow.

I am interested in your government.
I'm going to do my best to learn more.
There are things that seem genius, things that seem madness, things I don't understand at all.

"the thread was "what does freedom mean to americans?""

Yes I know. I have forgotten my childhood German, and who cares about French? But I read pretty good English.
When unsure of important words, I take a quick peek in the dictionary.

"you have overrun this thread.. looking for debates"

Maybe, maybe not.
I do have Doubts and Remorse.
Mostly I have responded to those who have responded to me.
And I would not say I am looking for debates, although it may be I am.
So what?
That is the thread. What is the nature of freedom in America?
Why is it wrong to discuss that?
Is that not one of Americas founding principles?
Is it my fault I, a foreign citizen, seem to have more to say about the topic than you?
Even if based in fiction. Even if I took the Devils hand, just to give others a chance to argue against me. So they might hone their view and see it evermore clear. As you said in your first line.

Where have you been till now, to defend your country, while I slander it's good name?
All this time you remained silent. While I lie and cheat and sully.
Only now you spring forth the Hero to wrench your flag from mud.

Or...could it be...you did nothing to defend the name of that land you now claim with love...and only now that I revile my secret and brand you lax, you take action.
Could be you did nothing to dispute my fiction. Till target changed from supposed beloved nation, to you.
Any too lazy to mouse click and deny a lie of false propaganda.
Maybe not.
But seems so.
Seems you sprang forth quick at moment of reveal.
Seems you were forced to haughty action to defend not your countries name, but your own.
Seems you have your panties twisted whilst caught with your britches down.
Yes.
Seems so.
Seems odd time to now play Righteous Hero, who defends repute his own.



As for Blah and blah and blah blah blah....blah?

Refer to same posts past, whence fueled personal indignation.

All was false and exaggeration.

Purposed to test basic skill of truth.

Long ago, you little hero,

FAILED!
 
hamato_yoshii;1889012; said:
Do me a favor, after work, take some time and read your posts, I know you were just playing the part before, but read your posts since you told us that you are an actor. Your tone hasn't changed. Take some time and see how you "speak" to people through written word, and see if maybe, just maybe you can see how me and others would comment on your arrogance. You are still refusing to accept what I'm telling you, and that's fine. If I put as much time and effort into this as you have (even if it is a lie) I would be upset to if I found out that my opponents weren't taking it as seriously as me. But understand that I've been in debates before, some won some lost, and I can recognize opinion based debates when I see them. It doesn't mean I don't partake, I do because they are fun as long as you don't take them too serious because they are just opinions. Your kinda like that guy that everyone knows where when you go to play pick-up basketball you throw elbows, and keep track of not only how many points you have but assists, rebounds, turnover ratio, and etc. These kinds of debates are pick-up games bro, you just happen to think that they are for the gold.


Hmmm
I think I should think some more.
 
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