Which parachromis for my 300

[Aquamojo]

I am going to have to disagree with Aqua on this one. It really depends on the fish's attitude. Check out post 16 in this thread. These fish obviously all get along with each other (no torn fins, etc), so overlapping territories isn't a problem. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59793& 300 gallons is more that enough to keep parameters under control with the fish you want. As long as the fish get along, there isn't any reason why your fish couldn't thrive in that environment. This site is peppered with 125's with worse stock than that.

You can't put rubber-stamp-rules on cichlids. To say they won't live in that tank happily is like saying that a pit and a rottie can't live in the same house. True they may fight, but that doesn't mean that they necessarily will. They might be best friends.

It's not about if they will or won't damage each other or even if you are able to manage keeping the water parameters under control. It's about space. Thrive rather than survive. I'm not beating my own chest here...but I am often asked why my fish look as good as they do. I think it really comes down to giving them enough room to thrive...and not simply survive.

Can he keep all of those fish in that 300 gallon tank? Sure. Will they live in it forever? Possibly. Unfortunately what you don't really see is how long the fish are in a particular tank. My fish on average....are about 7-8 years old. Some I have had for over 13 years...one 18 years. I keep all of my tanks stocked light. If I wanted more fish, I put up another tank. I know not everyone can or would do that...just speaking for myself.

I wont speak for Mo, but to me, for the most part, "overstocked" means population/species rates different than they would be in the wild (and yes, I know its not the wild and theyre in a glass box etc etc blah blah blah...but aesthetically speaking.)

Those fish wouldnt live that close to each other in the wild because they simply wouldnt tolerate each other (or find each other if geographically different). When you MAKE them do so, other adverse affects take over with their growth rates, eating habits, reproduction habits etc etc etc.

That many fish in an 8ft tank (which really isnt that big compared to how theyd live in nature) wont thrive. They may get 10+ inches, may eat like you (we) expect them to, but they wont act natural...and it is about "trying to cram as many fish as possible into the tank" if theres more than 1 large pair with some smaller pairs of less aggressive fish around, like there would be in nature.

How may 300g tanks do you see with 1 pair? or 265g with 1 pair? or 125g with 1 pair? Hardly any because thats a "waste" of tank space by MFK standards. Not speaking specifically of you or anyone reading this, but these fish are mostly possessions, bling, bragging rights etc on MFK, not really what one would describe as "pets".

Not many people on here (aside from ones with mental disorders) would cram as many dogs in a kennel as we do fish in an aquarium, especially not breeding pairs or aggressive males/ females and expect any rate of success of compatibility, would they? And if someone answers yes to that, to me, their opinions dont matter because they arent too humane or bright to begin with. With fish we just dont suffer the instant mortality rate you would with keeping other animals in such confined quarters.

"Overcrowded" , like most everything else on MFK, is subjective at best. What works for some doesnt for others & vice versa.

Well said, and you are correct. Of all the posts that come and go on this and other sites, the ones that I generally NEVER respond is the "help me stock my tank" posts. Often (and I am not saying this is the case here) it's like Fantasy League Football for the most part. I don't mean to offend...simply stating a personal preference and my belief for doing as I do.

Good luck with your fish...regardless of what you stock.

 

[Jc1119]

I actually didn't take offense to your post at all and understand it's your point of view and personal preference. Trust me, I would love to be able to dedicate an 8' tank to a breeding pair of festae or gt's. Wouldn't we all. It's just not practicle or possible at this time first due to space and second due to the amount of money I have invested in this project as it is.

I really started this thread to see what other people are keeping as far as parachromis species go. I like several types, but realize even with my 8' tank picking more than one probably isn't the smartest idea. The Midas and Jd are definitely going to be residents. The GT is questionable and most likely the con and firemouth will take up residence in the 90 at some point ( depending on the fishes personalities). That means three fish total if I include a parachromis.

And the fantasy football part is a good analogy. I like to hear other peoples opinions as far as stocking goes and feel it's important for them to know my current stock before making a decision. Wether they all stay or not. Ironically, not only do I not know what you would suggest, but I don't even know what you keep. If you do have experience with jags or freddies or RTM's I'd like to hear your impressions on keeping those fish. If not, then I've just wasted a bunch of time defending keeping potentially 3 fish in my new tank. I appreciate the well-wishing, but still don't know your point of view besides " I'm already overstocked"

Maybe I should rephrase.... If you had any empty 300 gallon tank what parachromis would you keep in it?

 

[VRWC]

So with this tank we plan on it being a cichlid tank with some cool fish. We like the parachromis species alot and would like to add one of the several species to the stock we already have. I get that there are those that feel I'm overstocked already and while I appreciate the input, it really wasn't what I was asking. There are 5 fish on the current stocklist. There are three on the wishlist. If the parachromis is the fish I decide to add from the wishlist which one would you chose ( and yes I understand " none your already overstocked " is a viable answer)

Ok, gotcha. I didnt mean to derail and take it in a different direction...and realized I didnt even answer your question. Sorry.

Ive done what youre doing, so I was by no means being negative or derogatory towards your project, and have had all parachromis species except loisellei. That being said, id probably add a loisellei. They are the smallest growing of Parachromis and, according to most everyone on here thats had them, the least aggressive.

In your setup, id say any but the dovii will work as good as any other for long term. At this point its just what youd prefer, looks wise.

 

[Jc1119]

Ok, gotcha. I didnt mean to derail and take it in a different direction...and realized I didnt even answer your question. Sorry.

Ive done what youre doing, so I was by no means being negative or derogatory towards your project, and have had all parachromis species except loisellei. That being said, id probably add a loisellei. They are the smallest growing of Parachromis and, according to most everyone on here thats had them, the least aggressive.

In your setup, id say any but the dovii will work as good as any other for long term. At this point its just what youd prefer, looks wise.

No worries! I like these kind of discussions, it's just that I have no experience with any parachromis and a managuense seems like it has potential to be big. I hadn't really considered a dovii based on size alone. But I do like the idea of slightly smaller more manageable parachromis if my setup will allow. Loisellei are beautiful fish and I've found a few places that stock them.

Funny, my daughter likes the loisellei as well...

 

[Aquamojo]

I actually didn't take offense to your post at all and understand it's your point of view and personal preference. Trust me, I would love to be able to dedicate an 8' tank to a breeding pair of festae or gt's. Wouldn't we all. It's just not practicle or possible at this time first due to space and second due to the amount of money I have invested in this project as it is.

I really started this thread to see what other people are keeping as far as parachromis species go. I like several types, but realize even with my 8' tank picking more than one probably isn't the smartest idea. The Midas and Jd are definitely going to be residents. The GT is questionable and most likely the con and firemouth will take up residence in the 90 at some point ( depending on the fishes personalities). That means three fish total if I include a parachromis.

And the fantasy football part is a good analogy. I like to hear other peoples opinions as far as stocking goes and feel it's important for them to know my current stock before making a decision. Wether they all stay or not. Ironically, not only do I not know what you would suggest, but I don't even know what you keep. If you do have experience with jags or freddies or RTM's I'd like to hear your impressions on keeping those fish. If not, then I've just wasted a bunch of time defending keeping potentially 3 fish in my new tank. I appreciate the well-wishing, but still don't know your point of view besides " I'm already overstocked"

Maybe I should rephrase.... If you had any empty 300 gallon tank what parachromis would you keep in it?

Actually I have more experience with the Parachromis species than most other cichlids. The answer to your question is hands down Managuense.

They are the most owner responsive and interesting IMHO. Second would be the new variant of Fredrichsthali being called "Yellow Head" from Honduras. Just an absolutely beautiful fish with nice fins and body shape.

I like the P. motaguense as well. They can get about as big as the Managuense....and larger than the Freddies above. Lots of color....personality isn't as "endearing".

Dovii are the largest at about 19"...VERY owner responsive. I kept two of them in a 300 gallon tank with some 10" Tinfoil Barbs. Awesome choice....but not my first.

You also have Loiselle and a couple variations on Fredrichsthali....here's a freddie from Escondido Mexico...not as nice IMHO as the other.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

 

[Jc1119]

Don't RTM's stay a hit smaller as well? I'm looking at a 4-5" for $25. They also have a loisellei but this one is about 8-9" for $40. Little bigger than I really want based on the size of my midas and Jd. This RTM looks really nice though

 

[Jc1119]

Actually I have more experience with the Parachromis species than most other cichlids. The answer to your question is hands down Managuense.

They are the most owner responsive and interesting IMHO. Second would be the new variant of Fredrichsthali being called "Yellow Head" from Honduras. Just an absolutely beautiful fish with nice fins and body shape.

I like the P. motaguense as well. They can get about as big as the Managuense....and larger than the Freddies above. Lots of color....personality isn't as "endearing".

Dovii are the largest at about 19"...VERY owner responsive. I kept two of them in a 300 gallon tank with some 10" Tinfoil Barbs. Awesome choice....but not my first.

You also have Loiselle and a couple variations on Fredrichsthali....here's a freddie from Escondido Mexico...not as nice IMHO as the other.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

Wow! Beautiful fish. I'm looking at a very large loisellei and three motaguense that are all about 4-5" which is about the size I'm looking for. I would assume growth rate is about the same but you say the mota can get 16" or so huh?

Your fish are very beautiful. You have quite a collection going

 

[VRWC]

Haha...Mo's pictures make the decision even harder now dont they?

They all look so good!!

 

[Jc1119]

Haha...Mo's pictures make the decision even harder now dont they?

They all look so good!!

You got that right! I'm kinda leaning motaguense again after seeing his picks and looking a this one in front if my at my lfs ( found one about 45 minutes from my house) They have three. Two are very dark, but the lightest colored one has the most beautiful markings and is nit very shy. The darker ones hide when I approach the tank but the lightest one follows me around. Pretty cool

 

[Jc1119]

So I found a pretty cool fish store in my area. Would call it a lfs but it's about a 45 minute drive from my house, so it's sort of local. They have pretty much everything but festae. Dovii, cubans, red isletta, Midas, flowerhorn, salvini, RTM, etc, etc, etc. Most fish are around the 4-5" mark and several are closer to 9-10". Selection is vastly better than my local petsmart.

I know the only stupid question is the one not asked so I'm asking....
Is there a difference between a motaguense and an RTM? Reason I'm asking here is the one labeled motaguense was a little bigger than the two labeled RTM and was cheaper, but lighter in color. Markings on the one labeled motaguense were the best of the three. I was under the impression they were in fact the same fish, but if you looked at them side by side they don't look very similar at all. I ask here first because I'm not familiar with this store or it's staff and wonder if they would ( or in fact could ) answer truthfully. Arent they the same?