Why are motoro stingrays illegal in California? (serious question)

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http://www.fishobserver.com/aquariu...ide-for-aquarium-keepers-and-researchers.html Would be interesting to see if this study was ever conducted, and if so what results came from it.
I think the main concern for banning rays in CA (and other states) is the public health threat. There is certainly plenty of evidence of it in the Amazon Drainage.
I'm not familiar with the habitats of springs in CA, but have seen a few in FL. As I remember, they appeared to be rather sterile environments. I'm not convinced fw rays could become established and thrive in these environments. Stable water temperature year round would certainly benefit rays in spring habitats, but what about rivers and lakes in CA that potentially drop below the prefered temperature range of rays?

Again, keep in mind the reproductive mode of rays.
 
Nabbig2 said:
Do you really believe motoro stingrays can establish themselves in California waters? Really, really really? I don't mean to come across as mocking but do you really believe that? Last time I checked the most "tropical" fish that exist in CA waters have been a couple species of tilapia, which are completely different animals and tolerate a wide range of water conditions. There's a reason why CA invasives are mostly temperate and coldwater species (carp, bass, bullhead)....
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For the first question you posed to me: Yes, 100%. As someone who has more experience with FW ray biology than most people out there, motoros (and almost any other FW stingray) would THRIVE in many of California's FW systems. Clearly you have very limited knowledge and experince with the wide ranges that these animals can live in. They are far more hardly that you give them credit for. You're missing the point I made, and continue to ignore the same idea when others post. Rays can and will cause major disruption to the native eco system. They are not to be compared to something as simple as a golfish (although they can be bad as well).
Look at FL for how bad a few released animals can become (Oscars, plecos, FW rays, lion fish, pythons etc...). And cold water climates deal with the same thing. Look at the Asian carp problem in Minnesota.

Although if you have proof or experience otherwise, please feel free to share why you think they would not survive. I'd love to hear your hands on work with rays and why you think they wouldn't survive if released.
 
spotfin said:
http://www.fishobserver.com/aquariu...ide-for-aquarium-keepers-and-researchers.html Would be interesting to see if this study was ever conducted, and if so what results came from it.
I think the main concern for banning rays in CA (and other states) is the public health threat. There is certainly plenty of evidence of it in the Amazon Drainage.
I'm not familiar with the habitats of springs in CA, but have seen a few in FL. As I remember, they appeared to be rather sterile environments. I'm not convinced fw rays could become established and thrive in these environments. Stable water temperature year round would certainly benefit rays in spring habitats, but what about rivers and lakes in CA that potentially drop below the prefered temperature range of rays?
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There is a thermal outfall flowing into the Santa Clara River where the convict cichlids established so they are not always contained to one area at most of times.
 
On thing I have always found funny is how everyone thinks the amazon is 80f from top to bottom. Rays live on the bottom, the coldest water is on the bottom. They are not always found in 2' or less were it would be 80f+, but out in the main channels with big catfish. Then the rains come and cool the water temp down even more in a really short time due to the volume of water added.

One of the things I am wondering and cant seem to find is what are the bottom temps of the amazon? Down in the channels and holes you find them in. There can be as much as 20f difference in temps from surface to bottom just in lakes up here in mn.

There are also springs in the Dakotas were jack Dempsey's have established them selves and it gets -50f at times here so to say that springs are not a source for tropical fish to thrive is just random bs. If the food fish like convicts, tilapia, JDS, etc can make it the preds like rays and others can also.

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Zoodiver said:
For the first question you posed to me: Yes, 100%. As someone who has more experience with FW ray biology than most people out there, motoros (and almost any other FW stingray) would THRIVE in many of California's FW systems. Clearly you have very limited knowledge and experince with the wide ranges that these animals can live in. They are far more hardly that you give them credit for. You're missing the point I made, and continue to ignore the same idea when others post. Rays can and will cause major disruption to the native eco system. They are not to be compared to something as simple as a golfish (although they can be bad as well).
Look at FL for how bad a few released animals can become (Oscars, plecos, FW rays, lion fish, pythons etc...). And cold water climates deal with the same thing. Look at the Asian carp problem in Minnesota.

Although if you have proof or experience otherwise, please feel free to share why you think they would not survive. I'd love to hear your hands on work with rays and why you think they wouldn't survive if released.
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Have you come across any reports of fw rays found in FL?

MN_Rebel said:
There is a thermal outfall flowing into the Santa Clara River where the convict cichlids established so they are not always contained to one area at most of times.
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Is this outfall from a spring or power plant? I wonder how far the convicts have spread away from the outfall.

Flowing water usually has more consistent water temps.
 
I don't see how they could survive. My uncle's pond in Phoenix drops down to the 50s and 60s during the winter months. And 90% of cali is much cooler than Phoenix.

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Siddons11 said:
I don't see how they could survive. My uncle's pond in Phoenix drops down to the 50s and 60s during the winter months. And 90% of cali is much cooler than Phoenix.

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Then you have springs and thermal outfalls scattered around in California...
 
Not necessarily true. I have a house in Phoenix. It's a harsh desert. Extremely hot summers, but the winters get surprisingly cold at night. Not too uncommon to have a few nights below freezing. LA and SoCal are a bit more temperate. Cooler summers, but winters are often warmer than Phoenix area. Doesn't matter much though. Rays are banned in both states.
 
As you see here, noone can agree if they can establish. The real question is, who the hell releases a there stingray.
 
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