Why are motoro stingrays illegal in California? (serious question)

[Dieselhybrid]

Seriously! Who would do that?!

But then again people introduce snakeheads and pirahna, all types of catfish and carp. Even large mouth bass were introduced into much of their range. The striped bass are wreaking havoc in Arizona lakes. Can't catch crappie or white bass anymore in many lakes, all stripers. The Colorado river chain has stripers spreading like mad. Some idiot would do it, only a matter of time.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[MN_Rebel]

Not necessarily true. I have a house in Phoenix. It's a harsh desert. Extremely hot summers, but the winters get surprisingly cold at night. Not too uncommon to have a few nights below freezing. LA and SoCal are a bit more temperate. Cooler summers, but winters are often warmer than Phoenix area. Doesn't matter much though. Rays are banned in both states.

Care to explained why there are tropical fish species successfully established in California?

 

[MN_Rebel]

On thing I have always found funny is how everyone thinks the amazon is 80f from top to bottom. Rays live on the bottom, the coldest water is on the bottom. They are not always found in 2' or less were it would be 80f+, but out in the main channels with big catfish. Then the rains come and cool the water temp down even more in a really short time due to the volume of water added.

One of the things I am wondering and cant seem to find is what are the bottom temps of the amazon? Down in the channels and holes you find them in. There can be as much as 20f difference in temps from surface to bottom just in lakes up here in mn.

There are also springs in the Dakotas were jack Dempsey's have established them selves and it gets -50f at times here so to say that springs are not a source for tropical fish to thrive is just random bs. If the food fish like convicts, tilapia, JDS, etc can make it the preds like rays and others can also.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

I heard about JDs in South Dakota! Crazy! There is a rumor of a small breeding piranha/pacu population in Lake Columbia, WI where the water never freezes and stays 70-80F all year. There's few Oscars and redtail catfish in that lake too.

 

[Dieselhybrid]

I don't see how they could survive. My uncle's pond in Phoenix drops down to the 50s and 60s during the winter months. And 90% of cali is much cooler than Phoenix.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

MNRebel I was responding to this quote above. Should have included the quote. Wasn't challenging anything you have said. I was trying to say that they could possibly survive in California because in many areas it is warmer in the winter than a climate like Phoenix as it gets very cold there in the winters. Lake Pleasant drops to the 50's in the winter sometimes.

I think we should never underestimate life. It finds a way to persist and survive even in the most unlikely of environments completely surprising us. When you add in that they are apex predators and potentially (although rarely) deadly, I understand why they are prohibited.

 

[MN_Rebel]

MNRebel I was responding to this quote above. Should have included the quote. Wasn't challenging anything you have said. I was trying to say that they could possibly survive in California because in many areas it is warmer in the winter than a climate like Phoenix as it gets very cold there in the winters. Lake Pleasant drops to the 50's in the winter sometimes.

I think we should never underestimate life. It finds a way to persist and survive even in the most unlikely of environments completely surprising us. When you add in that they are apex predators and potentially (although rarely) deadly, I understand why they are prohibited.

My bad, I completely agree with you the whole statement.

 

[Siddons11]

I think we should never underestimate life. It finds a way to persist and survive even in the most unlikely of environments completely surprising us. When you add in that they are apex predators and potentially (although rarely) deadly, I understand why they are prohibited.

Agreed

Sent from my SCH-I605 using MonsterAquariaNetwork App

 

[Zoodiver]

Have you come across any reports of fw rays found in FL?

I've come across MANY non-native species in FW bodies down here. And yes, there are FW rays.

As you see here, noone can agree if they can establish. The real question is, who the hell releases a there stingray.

I can confirm that FW Amazon rays can live in 50F water and would establish in the Southern states that have bans on them. As posted earlier, so many hobbiests get stuck on the idea that they need 80-85F water to live. Not even close to true. Go look at the actual range of temps these species see in the natural environment. Sure, they slow down - just like any other fish as the temps drop. Most Amazon rays live in low to mid 70F in the wild and will see upper 50F range. If you need another example, step to the marine side of North American fish. How many people do you see keeping Queen or French angels in 57-60F tanks? That is the water temp they are in several months out of the year in the wild.

And you would be surprised how many people think it's ok to put fish out into the wild. I hear it DAILY.

 

[Karl K]

I've come across MANY non-native species in FW bodies down here. And yes, there are FW rays.




I can confirm that FW Amazon rays can live in 50F water and would establish in the Southern states that have bans on them. As posted earlier, so many hobbiests get stuck on the idea that they need 80-85F water to live. Not even close to true. Go look at the actual range of temps these species see in the natural environment. Sure, they slow down - just like any other fish as the temps drop. Most Amazon rays live in low to mid 70F in the wild and will see upper 50F range. If you need another example, step to the marine side of North American fish. How many people do you see keeping Queen or French angels in 57-60F tanks? That is the water temp they are in several months out of the year in the wild.

And you would be surprised how many people think it's ok to put fish out into the wild. I hear it DAILY.

Ok, you should just think that people, that buy rays are expirienced fish keepers, that no what an amount of diseases and parasites that aquarium fish can spread to other fish. When you think about it, rays live at the bottom, at some high depths, it most be pretty Cold their. And when fish like Tiger Shovelnoses can live in Florida, why cant the rays ? Even if they dont transfer diseases and parasites, theyr still an apex predator, as someone else also stated, so they can do some damage to the native species that way And meny people fear stingrays too, so i understand why theyr illegal too. Just and example of Things you that seemed impossible: Sometime ago, someone caught a pacu, in a Danish dock (There where brackish Water, but still its very Cold, and there might be some details im missing, as said it happened a while ago.)

 

[spotfin]

I've come across MANY non-native species in FW bodies down here. And yes, there are FW rays.




I can confirm that FW Amazon rays can live in 50F water and would establish in the Southern states that have bans on them. As posted earlier, so many hobbiests get stuck on the idea that they need 80-85F water to live. Not even close to true. Go look at the actual range of temps these species see in the natural environment. Sure, they slow down - just like any other fish as the temps drop. Most Amazon rays live in low to mid 70F in the wild and will see upper 50F range. If you need another example, step to the marine side of North American fish. How many people do you see keeping Queen or French angels in 57-60F tanks? That is the water temp they are in several months out of the year in the wild.

And you would be surprised how many people think it's ok to put fish out into the wild. I hear it DAILY.

What species of rays and where? Just curious. I know Florida is full of non-natives. And there are "tropical" marine fish from Florida/Caribbean that end up in Maine during the summer. I got my username from a spotfin butterfly I caught up here many years ago at the size of a nickle. Have also seen/caught short bigeyes, crevalle jack, grey triggers, flying gurnards, and look downs.

As far as 50F water, do you think they could maintain at this temperature for extended periods of time? I would guess reproduction would cease as well.
I think we all agree that rays can live at temps lower than 80F, but in rivers and lakes in the US I just can't see them "taking over". It takes a few years for them to reach sexual maturity and they don't produce a lot of offspring. There would have to be a large group of individuals released in the same locality at the same time, and several years (generations) for them to become established. Again, I don't condone the release of any aquarium fish into a local body of water.

 

[Zoodiver]

I've heard reports of motoros in FL.

In larger bodies of water FW rays are like rabbits. I've delt with them in systems up to 200,000 gallons. They are much more rapid with reproduction when given the space/food than in smaller pools. I've been in the position of being over run with pups to the point that we had to create new systems just to house.

The other problem is that people of all experince levels buy fish - even if they shouldn't. They see something they think is 'cool' and will buy it. I've watched people drop thousands on fish they had no clue how to take care of. Those are the types of people who dump fish into local water ways.