Why are these being sold????

[ReApEr666]

Au contraire, In fact I'd say irresponsible and uneducated fish keepers with attitudes like yours are the problem and root of it all. It's people like you who encourage others to buy fish they can't handle -- "Hey bro, yeah get that cool looking RTC, it'll be ok in your 75, later you can get a bigger tank, no worries!"

And then what happens? Best case scenario it ends up in a zoo, aquarium or fish shop, but worse case, and just as common if not more, it's released into a local body of water -- causing all kinds of problems -- and THAT is why we have more and more laws regulating these matters -- don't absurdly blame it on knowledgeable, experienced and responsible fish keepers trying to educate others and help them avoid problems down the road.

Were u always so all knowing... or did u start as an irresponsible kid and grow/learn with the hobby. u cant condone someone for keeping large fish in a small tank when u keep "large" fish in a small tank your self. The principle is the same. What u deem appropriate may not actually be so. Theres too many nay sayers these days that badly affect any new comers.

Did u buy ur new aro first or buy the tank first?


I can say ur 300gal is a joke and not appropriate for ur fish. what good does that do? absolutly none..



I agree with u in that uneducated/irresponsible people will always be the problem. Big fish are not the problem. Thats my point. What not many people seem to understand is that the irresponsible/uneducated people help feed the hobby/market aswell. Without them the cycle stops. thats my 2nd point im trying to get across. We cant condone the neubs to the point of no return.

 

[ReApEr666]

Do you seriously think the gov't is going to start banning fish like Cichlids, Goldfish, Guppies or other fish that are not endangered in the wild (or a danger to local wildlife)? I'm no big gov't lover but overall the US has one of the best systems of wildlife protection in the world. It's not perfect but overall it works and there are good reasons for it -- no reason to bring in gov't control conspiracies etc.

Things are changing fast in the U.S....laws are tightening and its not just. hence my overreactions in this thread lol... ur tune will change when they come knockin on ur door for ur beloved pets. Be glad ur on an Island outta the states. Im just an old fish monger in hiding these days trying to promote monster fish keeping before its gone all together.

 

[BIG-G]

I can say ur 300gal is a joke and not appropriate for ur fish. what good does that do? absolutly none..



I agree with u in that uneducated/irresponsible people will always be the problem. Big fish are not the problem. Thats my point. What not many people seem to understand is that the irresponsible/uneducated people help feed the hobby/market aswell. Without them the cycle stops. thats my 2nd point im trying to get across. We cant condone the neubs to the point of no return.

So I’m trying to make sure I’m understanding.
We shouldn’t tell new aquarium keepers the correct and responsible care of their animals so that they will continue to buy and successively kill animals so that the money generated will continue the hobby.
Is that what you’re saying?

 

[islandguy11]

Were u always so all knowing... or did u start as an irresponsible kid and grow/learn with the hobby

Wow, just look in the mirror buddy.

u cant condone someone for keeping large fish in a small tank when u keep "large" fish in a small tank your self. The principle is the same. What u deem appropriate may not actually be so. There's too many nay sayers these days that badly affect any new comers.

First of all I didn't condone anything -- I just took exception to you calling out responsible fish keepers for trying to educate others -- you're blaming the wrong people.

Also I do not keep "large" fish in a small tank myself, you're talking out your ass dude. Sure I have put fish in a smaller, temporary quarantine tank, but ONLY when I have another bigger tank to put them in soon afterwards already on hand or have one on order -- like I did with my Goldenhead, and just as I'm doing right now with a new Blue Base (tank will be finished and here next week). This kind of planning and strategizing by someone who's been keeping fish for 40 years is much different than Mr. Joe Schmoe new to the hobby and deciding he wants to start off with silver arowana

And of course you can say having a young 11" Asian Arowana in a 7 foot tank all to himself is a joke, it's your prerogative, nobody's going to stop you from looking like a joke for saying that, up to you. Likewise you have absolutely no inkling of my ability/inability to get an even larger tank when it gets bigger.

Nobody here blaming the fish or trying to dissuade newbies from joining the hobby -- there's so much great info on this site and people who go out of their way to help them -- but there's a good learning curve involved in this hobby -- any newbie who jumps right in with an arapaima without proper experience or knowledge is just asking for trouble that can spill over and effect others in/outside the hobby -- just like a first-time dog owner who goes out and gets a pit bull or bull mastiff without knowing how to properly train it -- this is plain and simple irresponsible pet ownership.

 

[ReApEr666]

So I’m trying to make sure I’m understanding.
We shouldn’t tell new aquarium keepers the correct and responsible care of there animals so that they will continue to buy and successively kill animals so that the money generated will continue the hobby.
Is that what you’re saying?

Im saying they help feed the market yes... is it right... not at all. Im guilty aswell of flaming neubs for yrs on here. What good did it do killing peoples dreams tho or possibly turning them away all together? I know were on the same side here even tho i may b irrational/over the top lol. i could tell just by reading ur earlier post about what u feel seeing a monster fish in person, or hearing one eat. Thats it... thats what im trying to convey/promote/keep going for future generations. Am i all over the place, yes... Im not saying sharing knowledge and responsibility is a bad thing. Sharing/naysaying to the point where people stop trying to keep large fish all together is my worry/concern. do we know too much these days? lol..

 

[BIG-G]

Im saying they help feed the market yes... is it right... not at all. Im guilty aswell of flaming neubs for yrs on here. What good did it do killing peoples dreams tho or possibly turning them away all together? I know were on the same side here even tho i may b irrational/over the top lol. i could tell just by reading ur earlier post about what u feel seeing a monster fish in person, or hearing one eat. Thats it... thats what im trying to convey/promote/keep going for future generations. Am i all over the place, yes... Im not saying sharing knowledge and responsibility is a bad thing. Sharing/naysaying to the point where people stop trying to keep large fish all together is my worry/concern. do we know too much these days? lol..

I don’t think telling someone that their tank is not appropriate is going to make them leave the hobby. Especially if it isn’t.

I doubt that me telling someone they need a larger tank is going to make them not keep a certain fish. People can ignore my advice as easily as they can listen.

You been flaming neubs for years on here? MFK your join date is December 15 2018? I’m confused

 

[ReApEr666]

I don’t think telling someone that their tank is not appropriate is going to make them leave the hobby. Especially if it isn’t.

I doubt that me telling someone they need a larger tank is going to make them not keep a certain fish. People can ignore my advice as easily as they can listen.

You been flaming neubs for years on here? MFK your join date is December 15 2018? I’m confused

I agree with ya...maybe im just trying too hard these days to bring back the early days of MFK or inspire somone new... Over compensating for the lack of large fish keepers and a declining industry. How do we fix it? lol...


As for my recent join date, i needed a new name for reasons im not ready to share here yet.

 

[Kittiee Katt]

Firstly let me say that I don't want to argue and can see where both sides are coming from. But I had a conversation with a guy once that might help explain what ReApEr666 is getting at.



A five min drive from Tasmanians capital was a wonderful lfs. They sold fish, fish food, fish supplies and nothing more.

The original owners sold the shop a couple of years ago. The guy who brought it was exceptionally knowledgeable, he educated the less educated among his customers. When someone wanted an oscar for their 100ltr tank he'd explain why that was a bad idea and even go as far as refusing the sale and recommending a different fish if he didn't think the oscar would be cared for.

That store is now a hair salon. The guy who brought it wasn't making enough money to keep it open.
When he told my ex and I he was selling up I asked him why he wasn't making enough money, he told me that morals don't make money and gave me this scenario.

Scenario: Mavis and Bob go into a store to get little Jonny a fish. They buy a small 20ltr tank plus everything the employee says they need and a young oscar.
A week later they're back buying medications because the fish got sick during the cycle (which they know nothing about).
The week after that they buy a new fish to replace the (now dead) original fish. This repeats until Jonny loses interest in the fish or what have you.

If Jonny's parents were educated during their first visit to the store they likely wouldn't have brought the oscar in the fist place. Or would have brought a complete large setup for the oscar and only came back to the store every month or so when they run put of fish food or prime.


Its a sucky truth but those inexperienced "noobs" are what keep the prices down in our hobby. Stores make more money from uneducated customers than they do experienced keepers. I almost never buy medications, and I don't buy new fish every week or even every month or year. If lfs's were relying on customers like me who only go in for prime and such there wouldn't be too many around.


Disclaimer: ...Ahh screw it. No disclaimer this time.

 

[islandguy11]

Firstly let me say that I don't want to argue and can see where both sides are coming from. But I had a conversation with a guy once that might help explain what ReApEr666 is getting at.



A five min drive from Tasmanians capital was a wonderful lfs. They sold fish, fish food, fish supplies and nothing more.

The original owners sold the shop a couple of years ago. The guy who brought it was exceptionally knowledgeable, he educated the less educated among his customers. When someone wanted an oscar for their 100ltr tank he'd explain why that was a bad idea and even go as far as refusing the sale and recommending a different fish if he didn't think the oscar would be cared for.

That store is now a hair salon. The guy who brought it wasn't making enough money to keep it open.
When he told my ex and I he was selling up I asked him why he wasn't making enough money, he told me that morals don't make money and gave me this scenario.

Scenario: Mavis and Bob go into a store to get little Jonny a fish. They buy a small 20ltr tank plus everything the employee says they need and a young oscar.
A week later they're back buying medications because the fish got sick during the cycle (which they know nothing about).
The week after that they buy a new fish to replace the (now dead) original fish. This repeats until Jonny loses interest in the fish or what have you.

If Jonny's parents were educated during their first visit to the store they likely wouldn't have brought the oscar in the fist place. Or would have brought a complete large setup for the oscar and only came back to the store every month or so when they run put of fish food or prime.


Its a sucky truth but those inexperienced "noobs" are what keep the prices down in our hobby. Stores make more money from uneducated customers than they do experienced keepers. I almost never buy medications, and I don't buy new fish every week or even every month or year. If lfs's were relying on customers like me who only go in for prime and such there wouldn't be too many around.


Disclaimer: ...Ahh screw it. No disclaimer this time.

Some good points you make Ebbi to be sure (and I feel very sorry for your honest, ex-LFS owner). Also I do agree newer fish keepers contribute a lot in the way you and ReApEr666 mention, that's an unfortunate yet true business reality -- but the other side of the coin is if Johnny/parents had some decent knowledge (re: fish/tanks/basic of cycling), and then instead of killing his fish had success, lil' Johnny would've possibly gotten MTS like the rest of us and then spent lots of money there afterwards for years to come. While I rarely buy fish from them my LFS love me, I'm always buying new tanks, accessories, pumps, nets, filter media etc.

That said I do understand a lot of new hobbyists jump right in without proper research etc., (as perhaps many of us did when we were younger) -- let's face it, getting a fish tank is often an impulsive purchase for many people, then a lot of these give up once they see it really takes some work to keep it all going nicely (or other things in life come up and they don't have time).

 

[jaws7777]

I think reaper is just stating an inevitable truth however uncomfortable it is.