Wild Fish..... Economics

[ira]

You quoted something and misread it, that was my point. Do not blow things out of proportion.

I did leave the word not out but what do you call a fish caught in the wild and raised in a pond? I read it correctly but mis quoted it , Mo stated that such fish are not F0. I am not blowing any thing out of proportion but I say once it is wild caught it remains that way regardless and its probably better off in a pond than the largest of tanks anyway.

 

[darth pike]

A fish caught in the wild - whether at 1" or 10" - remains wild caught even after living in a fish tank or pond. Anyone disagree?

The offspring of fish collected in the wild and bred in captivity - whether "captivity" means a tank or pond in Florida, Central America, or Botswana - are F1. Anyone disagree?

Agree to both ...

cchhcc - I have deffinately noticed the decreased prices in wild CA/SA fish over the years. Westies are still expensive generally when wild caught compared to almost half when F1. But West Africa doesn't have the export capabilites that SA has. I would think CA would be more expensive than SA, as there is little to no large scale collections there. I remember back when I worked in a LFS during the mid to late 90's, wild caught CA/SA were much more expensive than they are now. The demand is much higher now than it was back then, so you would think prices would be higher as well. But shipping practices have improved, I imagines there are less loses now than there was ten years ago as well so you don't have to compensate for the losses as much.

 

[caribemob]

A couple of thoughts:

A fish caught in the wild - whether at 1" or 10" - remains wild caught even after living in a fish tank or pond. Anyone disagree?

The offspring of fish collected in the wild and bred in captivity - whether "captivity" means a tank or pond in Florida, Central America, or Botswana - are F1. Anyone disagree?

I'm not sure what the preoccupation is with wild fish....especially their "walmart-scale" extraction from native habitats.

Having worked with wild fish...and offspring of wild fish...true F1 and F2 fish (i.e. with provenance to a particular location) tend to be healthier, more colorful, more sociable and easier to breed than true wild caught fish. I believe that the mythology that anything other than wild caught fish are "pure" is a real problem for our hobby (to say nothing of conservation of habitats)...

Matt

oh no , you just said second and third gen. fish have more color, more sociable and easier to breed than true wild caught fish.
are you serious man , I'm done with your comments I discredit anything you say bro. Wild fish and there color cant be compared, and as far as breeding there the most active . all i can say is wow

 

[caribemob]

WOW! I have NEVER seen such an arrogant, narcissistic & ignorant group of posts on MFK since Ive been here.

Hey Ira, youre not the first to sell Don Conkel. Youre a No0b to this game kid. This discussion about Don, his fish, his practices, his ethics etc has been going on for years, so dont feel the need to jump in, 10 months in the game (with YOUR crew) and act like the legal defense counsel for DCT.

And talk about a crew...caribemob, flowerpower and buddha1200 go around her disputing every comment made about any fishes origin legitimacy as your mouthpieces. They have HURT your business, especially caribemob with his TOTAL ignorance on ANY topic, condescension to anyone not sporting the latest F0 fish, street thug mentality, subtle racist comments, childish one liners and his "oh so funny" arrogant threads ALL titled F0 blah blah blah...then making comments on beautiful fish pics asking what "F" they are (only to find out they are petsmart fish) and you NEVER pull the reigns in on them, so they have done nothing but contribute to any sort of animosity towards you by others on here.

I was interested in your stock and in placing an order with you until I saw the constant belittling by "your crew" of others, their arrogance on threads (especially when they seriously dont even know what they are talking about) and then to see you jump in here like you are Don, know Don, have been with Don for 30 yrs etc etc etc...

Your biggest problems are the ignorant mouthpieces you verbally support on MFK, that going around bragging on you. Do you read their comments? Do you see what they say to others and the ABSOLUTE asinine responses they make to people? Its not your place to do anything about it I guess, but if it were me and they were out there telling everyone to come to me, Id damn sure ask them to tone it down about 100 notches. It only makes you look as mis-informed as them.

On top of that and back on topic, LOTS of people, DCT included, have been calling pond raised fish F0 for years, regardless if they are TRULY wild caught. It goes under the assumption that if, you caught fish 20 yrs ago in CA (thats Central America for those of you in Rio Linda) and put it in a pond, its wild. Since its in a pond and not an aquarium, any fry born are wild as well. I dont think fry born in a pond from WC parents are wild, but whatever. I have had many fish from Don over the years and will continue to buy from him and several other vendors here and in other places.

name a thread were i started the negativity, and watch all the the hood talk buddy, I don't live there trust me, however it seems that you only see me as being negative and that's o.k , however i start my theads out with F0 as in wild fish whats wrong with that, should I say today in my fish room or something , i'm confused, the negative comments don't start with me Bro and newby you say I have nothing but top quality and check me out on the other forum rooms bro like the oddball section or piranha section, I'm more all around knowledgable then you are about aquarium fish, Just check my threads b4 you point finger's man

 

[capefeartarheel]

oh no , you just said second and third gen. fish have more color, more sociable and easier to breed than true wild caught fish.
are you serious man , I'm done with your comments I discredit anything you say bro. Wild fish and there color cant be compared, and as far as breeding there the most active . all i can say is wow

My point exactly Ira...here you have someone (possibly a self appointed spokesperson for Ira) that doesnt understand the english language, punctuation, contractions and basic typing skills, yet HE DISCREDITS anything dogofwar says...LOL...because hes expert enough on the genetics of cichlids to understand what could possibly carry the stronger genes...like it or not, its your monster...repeating your words, not speaking on any personal experiences, merely repeating your words, like a parrot.

 

[armac]

I did leave the word not out but what do you call a fish caught in the wild and raised in a pond? I read it correctly but mis quoted it , Mo stated that such fish are not F0. I am not blowing any thing out of proportion but I say once it is wild caught it remains that way regardless and its probably better off in a pond than the largest of tanks anyway.

The way I see it, and I am sure you could care less, is this. If I catch a wild fish in Panama, and I take it to Costa Rica and put it in a pond, that fish is wild. But any babies from that fish are F1, I think people are saying, and I could be wrong about this also, that some fish that are being "farmed" in these ponds in CA (Central America......not Cali) are being sold as wild.

So we are seeing a large influx of "wild" fish that may be farmed fish, but they are farmed in CA, understand? So in essence they are not wild but a foreign product, not of the native country, and not wild, that is being imported.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I feel the opposing sides have not been clear with their hypothesis.

Once again, strictly my opinion, Not Mo's Not Chris, not anybody but me.

 

[capefeartarheel]

name a thread were i started the negativity, and watch all the the hood talk buddy, I don't live there trust me, however it seems that you only see me as being negative and that's o.k , however i start my theads out with F0 as in wild fish whats wrong with that, should I say today in my fish room or something , i'm confused, the negative comments don't start with me Bro and newby you say I have nothing but top quality and check me out on the other forum rooms bro like the oddball section or piranha section, I'm more all around knowledgable then you are about aquarium fish, Just check my threads b4 you point finger's man

Well I guess you missed this day in "Class & Etiquette 101", but when you are out here on a forum, faceless, no hand shakes etc, pushing someones stock & trying to get them business, it doesnt do them any good for you to talk down to ANYONE on here in the same sentence, paragraph or thread, much less forum. You have cost Ira business by being condescending, name calling, making fun of others and more on here, for the simple fact that youve taken it upon yourself to "rep" him. If you dont want to continue to do so, I suggest you quit acting like you know more than you do & having a shi%%y attitude with everyone, or you quit dropping his name in your posts trying to promote him...and it wouldnt surprise me ONE BIT if he hasnt asked you to do the same.

As far as knowing more than me (and everyone else)...lol...again, like a parrot...repeating what others say without the experience to back it up, other than about 12 months worth of bad purchases and money spent on fish that you dont have adequate enough space to provide a long term, sustainable life for.

 

[dogofwar]

I think that's the key question:

Would you (and/or Don) consider the offspring of fish caught in a stream in Mexico...and raised in a pond in Costa Rica to be wild fish or F1?

Matt

The way I see it, and I am sure you could care less, is this. If I catch a wild fish in Panama, and I take it to Costa Rica and put it in a pond, that fish is wild. But any babies from that fish are F1, I think people are saying, and I could be wrong about this also, that some fish that are being "farmed" in these ponds in CA (Central America......not Cali) are being sold as wild.

 

[caribemob]

My point exactly Ira...here you have someone (possibly a self appointed spokesperson for Ira) that doesnt understand the english language, punctuation, contractions and basic typing skills, yet HE DISCREDITS anything dogofwar says...LOL...because hes expert enough on the genetics of cichlids to understand what could possibly carry the stronger genes...like it or not, its your monster...repeating your words, not speaking on any personal experiences, merely repeating your words, like a parrot.

ok , no skills from a IPhone your right., and like i said I have more experience with fish than you, where are your fish? your all talk and no threads. I only speak for myself but i stand up when some cowards with no fish in there tank's or the pics to prove so call me out or my supplier. And I do construction bro not English class look me up my last name is McCrae, I own a electrical contracting company in Philadelphia, Pa , I employ local 98 member's , My biggest job to give you a Idea was the Eagles Stadium , and this is all S%%% you can Google. So as far as being stupid or whatever I highly doubt it. PS : I own more fish than you too and I know more about them

 

[caribemob]

oh and like I said cape , dogowar comment isn't a fact at all , so what are you talking about. I'm a hobbyist that just tries to post fish in different categories because I have Xingu wolve's ,lacerdae's, Atf's, and Piranha's too, and I never start bashing anyone for no reason , they start with me