Worst fish keeper
- Thread starter Joshuakahan
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On the other hand... what do you all think of overfeeding? It is VERY common in the fishkeeping world.
I saw a whole gaggle of pictures of clown loaches today and a lot of them were obese and faded. "Look how fat and happy my clowns are!"
Saw another post about feeding and some folks said they only feed blood worms, like that was healthy or good. Different fish.
I guess, generally, fish keeping is largely subjective and anecdotal for most people. "I've been doing it this way for years and my fish are happy."
Your fish are alive. Unless you're Dr. Doolittle, your assessment of their mood is suspect.
Not that I'm holier than thou-ing it. However, I try to read as much as I can and learn the error of my ways as often as possible. Still, I can't say no fish has ever suffered from my ignorance.
I saw a whole gaggle of pictures of clown loaches today and a lot of them were obese and faded. "Look how fat and happy my clowns are!"
Saw another post about feeding and some folks said they only feed blood worms, like that was healthy or good. Different fish.
I guess, generally, fish keeping is largely subjective and anecdotal for most people. "I've been doing it this way for years and my fish are happy."
Your fish are alive. Unless you're Dr. Doolittle, your assessment of their mood is suspect.
Not that I'm holier than thou-ing it. However, I try to read as much as I can and learn the error of my ways as often as possible. Still, I can't say no fish has ever suffered from my ignorance.
When you think that fish in the wild never know when their next meal's coming, and that some fish such as mouth brooders can go for weeks without food, then I think it would be pretty safe to say that even with the odd fasting day thrown in, we're all guilty of overfeeding our fish.
Fat obese clown loach are probably eggbound females and female clown loach don't become egg bound if they're in a miserable environment, in fact you could say they're thriving to become egg bound in the first place.
Bloodworm are ok as a treat now and again, my fish love bloodworm. But as a staple food? No chance.
I evaluate my success as a fish keeper by how many fish I have that die on me, how many fish I have that fight all the time, how many fish I have that continually skulk about in a corner, how dirty my tank is etc etc.
I'd like to think I keep my fish in a suitably sized environment, though I realise those types of arguments will still be going on long after we're all dead. I think I give them a good varied diet and I certainly keep on top of my water changes.
I'm reasonably happy at the level i'm at, still learning, always learning.
I'm most likely the odd one out but I see no problem or very few problems with it. My logic is (and some people will disagree with me) is that if they were in the wild then their life span will be cut shorter by not being able to find enough food then in our tanks being over fed. Now, these fish were bred in captivity so it makes my point mute but I still believe it. Am I a hypocrite for applying what applies to wild fish on captive bred fish that will never see the light of wild waters and not having a problem with it? Maybe, maybe not.
Obese fish look gross, as do obese dogs, obese cats, etc. It has also been demonstrated many times, by many people considered experts in their field, that overfeeding & overeating is very unhealthy for fish, along with most animals.
I've been saying this for the past 20+ years, and many of those who work in the field of aquatics agree - one of the most common causes of death in captive fish is related to excessive fat deposits in and around the organs. Excess fat ends up stored in various tissues, specifically the liver. Over time this can lead to the degeneration of the liver, which is more commonly referred to as "Fatty Liver Disease". Years ago I read an article which included some info from a fish parasitologist at a Canadian University. He was involved with performing autopsies on dead fish at public aquaria and the single most common cause of death that he recorded in those autopsies was "fatty liver disease". Ruth Francis Floyd from the U of Florida has stated the same in some of the papers that she has authored or co-authored over the years.
And I would hope that one is focussing more than on just a fishes potential lifespan, but along with that the fishes quality of life while they are alive.
And I agree with Esox, fat clown loaches often simply equate to a female that is ripe with eggs. Faded out clown loaches can mean a number of things, certainly not so simple as the fish is in any way unhealthy.
And while I agree that fish keeping is largely subjective and anecdotal for most people, there are some things that are just plain stupid. I've seen plenty of it over the years, some of it in my own tanks, but never anything even close to what the person in the vid was doing, and seemingly enjoying doing. But as they old saying goes, you can't stop stupid. At least not all of the time. Hopefully the person in that vid wisened up since posting that, or found a new hobby, one that didn't involve live animals.
I've been saying this for the past 20+ years, and many of those who work in the field of aquatics agree - one of the most common causes of death in captive fish is related to excessive fat deposits in and around the organs. Excess fat ends up stored in various tissues, specifically the liver. Over time this can lead to the degeneration of the liver, which is more commonly referred to as "Fatty Liver Disease". Years ago I read an article which included some info from a fish parasitologist at a Canadian University. He was involved with performing autopsies on dead fish at public aquaria and the single most common cause of death that he recorded in those autopsies was "fatty liver disease". Ruth Francis Floyd from the U of Florida has stated the same in some of the papers that she has authored or co-authored over the years.
And I would hope that one is focussing more than on just a fishes potential lifespan, but along with that the fishes quality of life while they are alive.
And I agree with Esox, fat clown loaches often simply equate to a female that is ripe with eggs. Faded out clown loaches can mean a number of things, certainly not so simple as the fish is in any way unhealthy.
And while I agree that fish keeping is largely subjective and anecdotal for most people, there are some things that are just plain stupid. I've seen plenty of it over the years, some of it in my own tanks, but never anything even close to what the person in the vid was doing, and seemingly enjoying doing. But as they old saying goes, you can't stop stupid. At least not all of the time. Hopefully the person in that vid wisened up since posting that, or found a new hobby, one that didn't involve live animals.
I think everyone has lost sight of the reason for this thread. It wasn’t to nitpick various practices, such as how often to do water changes or if a tank is not big enough. I was pointing out this guys complete lack of knowledge and/or caring for his pet fish by mixing incompatible species, allowing disease to fester and letting his fish fight to the point they are severely injured. This guy is a horrible fish keeper and this is way to common in our hobby. It’s also a far cry from over feeding, keeping an Oscar in 55 or doing 10% water changes as opposed to 35%
Mixing the flowerhorn and festae is obviously not an ideal scenario but i have known many keepers to mix large aggressive cichlids and done so myself with some success.
I think a lot of people are just trying to have fun with the hobby. When you start explaining to these people the intricacies of the hobby, start talking about certain percentages of water changes, minimum tank footprints, water parameters...it just sucks the fun out of it for the casual fishkeeper.
I dont think anyone should be told they shouldnt keep fish and i dont think anyone, regardless of how qualified they think they are, should be directing such statements.
Likewise, i think the hostile tone some use to attack other keepers just ends up making things worse. It takes a different approach to get through to some people, not just mudslinging or incriminating.
I think a lot of people are just trying to have fun with the hobby. When you start explaining to these people the intricacies of the hobby, start talking about certain percentages of water changes, minimum tank footprints, water parameters...it just sucks the fun out of it for the casual fishkeeper.
I dont think anyone should be told they shouldnt keep fish and i dont think anyone, regardless of how qualified they think they are, should be directing such statements.
Likewise, i think the hostile tone some use to attack other keepers just ends up making things worse. It takes a different approach to get through to some people, not just mudslinging or incriminating.
Man there's just so much wrong with what you wrote above I'm not even going to bother going into it all, we clearly have quite different views and values when it comes to this hobby.
However, I will mention that in your last couple of sentences you forgot to include as also not being particularly effective: making thoughtlessly shameful historical references in connection to generally accepted fish keeping practices, and referring to some fellow members as 'MFK Nazis' --both of which pretty much take the cake in this regard from what I've seen on this forum.
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I love cake.
I think you said it all with us having different views and values. Whether you think i'm "wrong" is your business, inconsequential to me. Ill try to make amends for bringing up nazis. It was meant as a casual, easily relatable reference, not a major thesis or talking point. I think it was blown out of proportion but I'll apologize again now for being insensitive if that helps at all. Never my intention to offend.
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