yet another nurse shark post

[Zoodiver]

I've said it before and I'll post it again:

If your animals aren't reaching average wild size in captive settings, you're doing something wrong. There is no reason an animal should end up being small just because it's not in the wild.

 

[TheCanuck]

I've said it before and I'll post it again:

If your animals aren't reaching average wild size in captive settings, you're doing something wrong. There is no reason an animal should end up being small just because it's not in the wild.

im sorry but nothing a human ever does can compare to the ocean .... the bigger the animal gets in the wild , the more mass it will lose in captivity FOR THE MOST PART. No one will ever be able to compare to mother nature and the ocean , but we strive for the best we can. I totally dissagree with your post above. But i feel that yes their is a big problem if its unhealthy and very undersized but what you say isnt realistic. Just like taking a shark from the ocean and keeping it as a pet , think about that really hard , taking shark and owning it as a pet... that just doesnt even sound right does it? But everyone has found a way to justify it. No one will ever match up but they try and that is what counts..

I have owned fish that where suppose to get full size in a certain tank , their tank size was 4x bigger than it should have been .... and they still didnt get the size they would in the wild. I feed them the best varied diet possible, perfect water , best lighting. Day and night light everything..... Its a whole different element, that we will never be able to perfectly simulate..


this only concerns personally owned animals.... aquariums jump to a more advanced level.

 

[Zoodiver]

I've seen a lot more private owners able to keep big aquatic animals on par with aquariums/zoos.

My theory is true for more than just sharks. It applies to all fish. I've seen many many people provide the right set up for the animals in their care - and the animals thrive.

I have a hard time seeing large animals negatively impacted due to small tanks. Animals live shorter lives in confined areas, they don't mature or grow correctly, and people who fall into that category rarely determine a cause of death. "Oh it was old" come up alot.

 

[armac]

I've seen a lot more private owners able to keep big aquatic animals on par with aquariums/zoos.

My theory is true for more than just sharks. It applies to all fish. I've seen many many people provide the right set up for the animals in their care - and the animals thrive.

I have a hard time seeing large animals negatively impacted due to small tanks. Animals live shorter lives in confined areas, they don't mature or grow correctly, and people who fall into that category rarely determine a cause of death. "Oh it was old" come up alot.

Earlier you said........"I have yet to see a private aquarium in a home that can house an adult nurse shark"

A little contradiction there. Have or haven't you seen private setups that were adequate?

 

[Zoodiver]

I haven't seen a private aquarium big enough to house an adult nurse. That doesn't conflict with me saying there are a lot of big time aquarists in the private sector out there. I've seen home aquariums in the tens of thousands of gallons. Those work great for some bigger animals. None are adult nurse shark worth though.


My later comment was geared toward the comment that private aquarists can't be on the same level of care as public facilities. In my opinion many are - or passing the level pros can give.

 

[krj-1168]

I think grow out tanks will stun growth of a nurse as well .... Meaning the nurse would be like 12ft long if it was in a 20000 gallon tank to begin with , but if you slowing kept buying tanks as it grew it probly would only max out around 6 -7' reasonably... i think this 14ft 12ft and 10ft , for a PERSONALLY owned nurse is bs..... or very rare.

I see these sharks at my LFS being sold all the time. I shake my head and wonder if the idiot that buys them has any idea..... Man i wish i could buy a couple of them and have enough space to take care of them.

30 year old bumblebee grouper died in his home reaching only 4.5ft 120 pounds... they dont get as large as they should , most of the time not even close.

The species(bumblebee grouper) can grow as large as 2.7 meters (9 ft) long, weighing up to 600 kg (1320 lb); there are unconfirmed reports of it growing much bigger...... it just doesnt happen with captive animals , especially SW fish and sharks

Your logic is seriously flawed.

For One thing Sharks aren't Grouper. They are very different fishes - it's basically the same as say Bats to Dolphins are both mammals, so what is true with bats is also true with Dolphins - which is a load of crap.

2nd thing - Sharks are not stunted by being kept in smaller tanks. If they were then you would be able to find adult Brown-banded Bamboo sharks that are only 18-22" by the dozens. But you don't, why because sharks growth isn't stunted by being kept in smaller tanks.

An adult Nurse shark doesn't reach maturity until they are at least 7 ft long - and that fact doesn't change from wild to captivity. In fact there isn't any shark that matures at a smaller size in captivity than it does in the wild. Like wise - the average adult size and maximum size of any shark species doesn't change just because you remove it from the wild and place it in captivity.

3rd thing - The reason why you rarely see a 9-10' Nurse shark in the care of Private Aquarist - is simply because very Very few private aquarists are capable of taking care of a shark of that size - as Zoodiver's post above illustrates.

 

[TheCanuck]

Your logic is seriously flawed.

For One thing Sharks aren't Grouper. They are very different fishes - it's basically the same as say Bats to Dolphins are both mammals, so what is true with bats is also true with Dolphins - which is a load of crap.

2nd thing - Sharks are not stunted by being kept in smaller tanks. If they were then you would be able to find adult Brown-banded Bamboo sharks that are only 18-22" by the dozens. But you don't, why because sharks growth isn't stunted by being kept in smaller tanks.

An adult Nurse shark doesn't reach maturity until they are at least 7 ft long - and that fact doesn't change from wild to captivity. In fact there isn't any shark that matures at a smaller size in captivity than it does in the wild. Like wise - the average adult size and maximum size of any shark species doesn't change just because you remove it from the wild and place it in captivity.

3rd thing - The reason why you rarely see a 9-10' Nurse shark in the care of Private Aquarist - is simply because very Very few private aquarists are capable of taking care of a shark of that size - as Zoodiver's post above illustrates.

let me ask you .... do you agree that poor water quality stunts growth of fish , all fish?

Do you think a malnutrition any animal will have growth stunted?

Do you think locking you in a closet will give you a little mental and physical health problems?

If you couldnt get the proper exercise wouldnt your muscles be weak and not grow as well?

Now that you have to answer yes to all these questions because your out of wack if you dont , these all happen in private aquariums .... an almost impossible to happen in the ocean.

Zoodiver said that no one has a suitable tank for nurse sharks privately.... only point i was trying to make.... with a tank that is not suitable the questions i asked are more likely to happen..... So the shark would die before it reached its maximum length , splitting hairs with stunting growth. Call it what you want, its not healthy and its not right. Zoodiver said most people blame it on old age , but these awsome animals just arnt meant for "tanks". Thats my point , you can disagree or whatever but its just retarded seeing people buying nurse sharks.... So basically put any animal in a smaller enviorment , it has more chances of becoming sick , stunted , mis fed , mistreated .... they either dont grow as big , die earlier , or live a crappy life.


and they dont have 9-10' foot sharks because they never make it that big..... why?

Stick a dolphin and a bat in a smaller enviorment with certain conditions that are not optimal for them, i bet they both dont grow and have full health potential....

Sure private tanks can give better care with some animals , but we are now in the beasts section of animals , these are not cute little fish. These require research and data , with research and experiance. Most everyone has none , and for the little who have stratched the surface , they shouldnt think for a second they know that much about keeping this animal captive.

but once again , im arguing about private holders of these sharks , not aquariums i think some do a great job of housing these monsters. Others should just give up.

My logic is flawed ... sharks that get bigger than 6' should not be publicly sold.

 

[TheCanuck]

Your logic is seriously flawed.



2nd thing - Sharks are not stunted by being kept in smaller tanks. If they were then you would be able to find adult Brown-banded Bamboo sharks that are only 18-22" by the dozens. But you don't, why because sharks growth isn't stunted by being kept in smaller tanks.

.

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292596

22inch ADULT bamboo shark that layed eggs , obviously was fully mature , then died ..... check your stuff brosive. Its even on mfk ....

Whether its a smaller species or not , it was small , smaller than wild ones.

 

[krj-1168]

22inch ADULT bamboo shark that layed eggs , obviously was fully mature , then died ..... check your stuff brosive. Its even on mfk ....

Whether its a smaller species or not , it was small , smaller than wild ones.

BTW- for the record - the Gray Bamboo is a completely different species than the Brown-banded Bamboo. And the Gray Bamboo reachs maturity at 17-21 inches. So at 22 inches the female was a sexually mature adult (and that's in the wild or in captivity), when she layed the eggs.


BTW - I'm not disagreeing with Zoodiver's points (as they are very good points). And yes for a shark to to reach adult size - it first has to be taken care of well enough to reach that size.

My points - include the following
- A Shark's growth won't be stunted by tank size alone.
- And if well cared for the shark should eventually reach the average adult size for it's species - and not "max out" a smaller adult size just because it's captivity or in a smaller than recommended tank/lagoon.

 

[TheCanuck]

True , but in a smaller tank , all those other factors take place. Sure if you had it in a small tank , and provided sirplus care it wouldnt be to bad. But the fact that having it in a smaller tank makes everything 10x as hard to keep after is to much for a private aquarium person. But i believe people are doing the best they can , i just once again dont think nurse sharks should be publicly sold....i just dont like when i see people at lfs , " Dam fool , check out diz shark. He would look tite in mi 100 gallon."

I understand your points now , yes JUST a small tank doesnt make it happen but because it is a small tank other factors are heavily influenced into the equasion. But for the most part i dont see sharks ever reaching 12 , 10 , or a rare 7' in private aquariums. I am sure it will happen one day though.