yet another nurse shark post

[Jabba954]

I try not to chime in too much on these topics, because I'm one of the few people with the finances and the time to actually house some fairly large sharks (just started my 50K tank last month). Here's what Zoodiver and KRJ's points boil down to, in plain english for you:

THEY'RE NOT BEING STUNTED, THEY'RE BEING KILLED BEFORE THEY REACH SEXUAL MATURITY.

 

[TheCanuck]

I try not to chime in too much on these topics, because I'm one of the few people with the finances and the time to actually house some fairly large sharks (just started my 50K tank last month). Here's what Zoodiver and KRJ's points boil down to, in plain english for you:

THEY'RE NOT BEING STUNTED, THEY'RE BEING KILLED BEFORE THEY REACH SEXUAL MATURITY.

Stunted life span .... its all the same , you can call it what you want. They still can be stunted , one shark eats and exercies more in the ocean , grows maybe bigger faster stronger .... another thats cooked up in a tank , grows slower , isnt that stunting? Maybe it gets sick and doesnt eat for a week.... thats a week it could have grown but instead it will try to fight off sickness. Slowing the growth of any animal is stunting. My arguement was that captive animals dont get as big as the wild ones , all of you have already agreed with me ..... whether they die quicker , or have stunted growth , why are you caps locking in when everyone has already agreed with me..?

split hairs all you want. You can drop your pride (directed towards everyone) , as will I.

GL with you 50k shark tank , sounds awsome.

I would love a smaller shark myself but with my triggers i dont see it happening.... out of curosity could any of the smaller sharks thrive in a 350 gallon? that sounds small yes but the layout would be a 12x2x2, giving better demensions then stantard tanks am i correct?

 

[Zoodiver]

It's been my experience that well cared for captive animals can outgrow those in nature. Some (on this site) will even argue that 'size records' should exclude captive animals because you can outgrow what they would in nature.
A steady food supply, large secure setting and health care provide more growing than some can acomplish in the wild.

 

[Jabba954]

My arguement was that captive animals dont get as big as the wild ones , all of you have already agreed with me ..... whether they die quicker , or have stunted growth , why are you caps locking in when everyone has already agreed with me..?

...

I would love a smaller shark myself but with my triggers i dont see it happening.... out of curosity could any of the smaller sharks thrive in a 350 gallon? that sounds small yes but the layout would be a 12x2x2, giving better demensions then stantard tanks am i correct?

1) It's not splitting hairs. Your stated argument is that sharks in captivity do not reach the same size as in the wild. That is incorrect. Only improperly cared for sharks will fail to reach wild size. Where this is a bigger issue is in the private aquarium trade - very very few of us possess the financial means to build a public aquarium grade tank - that's what it takes to house adult black tips, bonnets, sharpnose, lemons, and a variety of other sharks available to private keepers.

Properly housed sharks WILL achieve the same size as in the wild. If they are not properly housed, they will die beforehand. Just because you haven't seen it does not mean that it doesn't exist.

2) For your size tank, not really - the problem is the 2' width. Minimum, you want 2x max body length for width and 4x body length for length, and since even the smallest sharks reach ~2', you want a 4' width.

 

[TheCanuck]

man i dont know why i have to repeat myself ...

captive private shark owner's sharks do not reach full size ... why because the shark is not properly cared for your right. Because 99% of people cant ever provide for a NURSE SHARK. Yes it will die early. I am not saying it doesnt exist , i just am stating a shark will 99% of the time never reach the wild size of the animal in a private setting....

Live aquaria states a bamboo shark can be kept for life in a 180 gallon ...... thats why these sharks are "stunted" , and 99% of the time never match up to the wild ... or public aquariums... because people dont know what it takes to really care for a special animal.

i dont know how thats an arguement , it just makes sense ...

I know it can be done and it SHOULD reach its wild potential length. Being captive should have no effect on it , but it does. That is a big problem and people should rethink if they should take care of some of the animals they do.

I am not saying that a shark will never reach max length in captive , it should and some do! But in private settings thats rare , and i think more research on feeding, space, and effort should be given to people who are trying to purchase these animals so they will grow to their expected length, and live a long life.... hope this clears up some confusion...

 

[Zoodiver]

Liveaquaria.com sucks. If you want a good laugh check of the suggested tank size for the Arapaima gigas they sell. Then tell me how a fish that should be 5-6 feet in two years will fit in that.

Aside from all that, I think we are now all arguing the same point. Sharks SHOULD get to the full wild size in captive settings. If they don't something is wrong - could be tank size, diet, water quality etc... But something is wrong if they don't reach the wild size.

Do they reach wild size? Most of the time, probably not. Why... again, because the person housing them isn't doing it correcty.

 

[Jabba954]

lol - I just bought a black saddled grouper from liveaquaria.com's Diver's Den (figured I'd give them a shot, I hear the Diver's Den offers better quality fish than the general online store). The grouper routinely exceeds 3' in captivity, and they can reach over 4'. LA.com suggests a minimum 90 gallon tank....

Canuck, your points are valid, it's simply your tone, and perhaps lack of clarity. As you stated, you're trying to say the same thing, yet 4 or 5 of us thought you were saying something else entirely.

 

[armac]

I try not to chime in too much on these topics, because I'm one of the few people with the finances and the time to actually house some fairly large sharks (just started my 50K tank last month). Here's what Zoodiver and KRJ's points boil down to, in plain english for you:

THEY'RE NOT BEING STUNTED, THEY'RE BEING KILLED BEFORE THEY REACH SEXUAL MATURITY.

Wow, big dogg

 

[krj-1168]

Live aquaria states a bamboo shark can be kept for life in a 180 gallon ...... thats why these sharks are "stunted" , and 99% of the time never match up to the wild ... or public aquariums... because people dont know what it takes to really care for a special animal.

This is why you should never EVER trust the tank size listings on any website that sells fish. Most websites of this nature tend to quote for "Aquarium Sharks & Rays" - which as has been stated before may times - is way too small on minimum tank sizes. The major problems with Scott Michael's tank sizes estimations, is that he doesn't take into account the nature of the individual species of shark - but instead tend to lump all benthic sharks together & all swimming sharks together.

Although in Liveaquaria.com's case, they do have a wonderful selection of fishes and even some pretty exotic sharks for time to time(such as PNG Eppies, Arabian Bamboos, & Japanese Horns).

The truth is by my count there are at least 3 basic types of benthic sharks, & 3 types swimming sharks that are available to private aquarists. Each type has there own basic requirements & needs to live a healthy normal life.

They are as follows -
Benthic sharks

1.) inactive Benthic species - such as the wobbegongs
2.) Semi-active benthic species - Bamboos & Eppies
3.) Active benthic species - Horns, Nurse, Catsharks

Swimming Sharks
1.) Non ORV - Smoothhounds, & WTR
2.) Reef ORV - BTR
3.) coastal ORV - Sharpnose, Bonnets

 

[Zoodiver]

Wow, big dogg

He speaks the truth..... not something he would normally talk about on forum. His current project is over double what I'm doing at the aquarium right now - with the same kind of animals in mind.