180 Big enough or not ?

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cacichlids ......... I don't believe that anyone that has posted in this discussion and been anti-180 for life, is a water nazi. WTH was that all about? As responsible fish keepers should we advise the OP to go with the smallest glass box humanly possible? If not, does that equate to being a Nazi? What kind of assbackwards logic is that?

Also, the OP of this discussion clearly asked
Is a 180g (6x2x2) Big enough for a single male Dovii, to live comfortably for life ?
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........... not if a 180 would be adequate as a temporary grow out tank.




seedubs ....

A quote directly from cchhcc from his discussion with Rapps on the 180 gallon for a dovii thread a while back:

"Still, aquaculture facilities have shown that it is water quality and not necessarily tank size that is the key component to growth rates." -cchhcc
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And you point is? As previously stated:
I can grow a juvie Oscar to 14" in a 30gallon long, what does that prove? Growth is only 1 part of the BIG equation when it comes to keeping a fish in what should be considered optimum conditions.
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If you still don't get it, I'm not sure what more I can say? I've been in this hobby a long time, longer than most here, and I have yet to see anyone that has kept a male dovii in what I would consider optimum health, long term, in a 180 gallon tank. I've seen a number of people who have tried, and eventually every last one of them have either sold the fish (typical) or realized that they need a major upgrade in tank size in order to keep the fish long term.

It wasn't a water quality issue, it was a tank size issue as this is a large active predatory species that generally speaking doesn't do well in cramped conditions. I'm not suggesting that anyone needs an 800 gallon tank to keep a single male in, but IMO a 180 is at the opposite end of the spectrum.
 
Not sure what else I need to say here.

I've refuted the argument that Dovii don't/can't grow to their full potential in 180 gallon tanks, and that is the reason that they shouldn't be kept in such "cramped tanks". To which you respond that growth doesn't mean anything.

I've refuted the argument that Dovii need a bigger tank due to territory issues. In the wild they have territories MUCH bigger than 500, 600, 1000 gallons, etc... They bang on glass in BIG tanks, they bang on glass in 180's too. If you think this is the issue, then NOBODY should keep them unless they have a lake.

So.....Unless you are the fish whisperer, and can tell me the Dovii tells me I must have a 4 foot wide tank, I don't think there's much else to be said here.
 
seedubs ......... other than in your own mind you haven't refuted anything thus far. lol

I never said that a single male dovii requires a 4 ft wide tank, nor did I say that growth doesn't mean anything. You might want to go back & re-read what I actually posted.

As previously stated, people with systems that are on average too small to comfortably house a fish long term always seem to find a way to justify their decision.

Best of luck to the OP with whatever you decide.

Over, and out. :)
 
RD, you just love to result to petty insults when you have been beat in a debate.

Come at me with some data that shows me that they shouldn't be kept in a 180. There is none.

"I can grow a juvie Oscar to 14" in a 30gallon long, what does that prove? Growth is only 1 part of the BIG equation when it comes to keeping a fish in what should be considered optimum conditions. "

I can also keep a guppy in a 500 gallon tank alone. It doesn't mean it's necessary. See how that works. Let's keep this debate in the realm of reality.
 
fishman09 said:
data really. muct be a real scientist if you need data that doesnt exist or this never would be an arguement
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I'm just saying that there is no evidence that keeping a Dovii in a 180 is detremental or cruel to the fish as long as water conditions are good.

As I have said before, it is my belief that most people keeping Dovii in 180's allow water conditions to deteriorate, which causes the notion that "Dovii shouldn't be in 180's." Keeping one in a 180 required frequent large water changes, which most people won't do. But if the water conditions are kept in check, I fully believe that a single male Dovii is fine in a 180.
 
Petty insults? Honestly, I have no idea WTH you are talking about??? If I decide to insult you, trust me, it will be crystal clear. :grinno:

Using your logic, one would have to provide data to support the fact that keeping a full grown Oscar in a 30 gallon long isn't ideal. You don't need data to come to the conclusion that a 180 is going to fall short in providing optimum conditions for the long term health & well being of a full grown male dovii - all you really need is a little common sense. Somethng that seems to be seriously lacking on this forum as of late. And no, that's not directed at you personally.
 
seedubs1 said:
I'm just saying that there is no evidence that keeping a Dovii in a 180 is detremental or cruel to the fish as long as water conditions are good.

As I have said before, it is my belief that most people keeping Dovii in 180's allow water conditions to deteriorate, which causes the notion that "Dovii shouldn't be in 180's." Keeping one in a 180 required frequent large water changes, which most people won't do. But if the water conditions are kept in check, I fully believe that a single male Dovii is fine in a 180.
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You got any "data" or "stat" for that? :ROFL:
 
The quality and integrity of these forums is predicated on intellectual honesty of both the one asking the question and those responding. The strength/ knowledge shared is due to experience primarily and science when appropriate and known.

The forum will be weakened by those professing wisdom and experience they do not have.
 
Im sorry if I sound rude but why would you want to keep a fish that could grow almost 24 inches in a tank 72x24? Am i missing something?
 
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